[Leytur]

Source: Horacio The "its just Karahzan" argument holds no water. Different people play the game at different paces. What may be trivial content for some is important for others. At one point and time, Kara was a big deal to everyone.

"It's just Karazhan" refers to the loot, not the content.

[Leytur]

Source: Ringthane They're paying dues, just like you paid dues the first few times you went in there. This is why I gave up on this game. "It's only UBRS." "It's only Kara." Feh.

First--why are you on this forum if you don't play the game? Doesn't make much sense.

Second--so your assertion is no one should get loot until they've paid dues?

[Marn]

You probably shoulda given the hat to the warlock, but it's not a huge deal, she can get it next time, or get a different hat (Spellstrike for example, easily crafted).

[lorelye]

Kara broke many guilds when it was released, remember. People weren't set up to deal with 10man loot issues, for some reason.

My story for example: My old guild had only about 5 healers at that time, and the MT would take 4 of them. So the rest of us waited patiently for invites... When I finally got a seat, I lost every random roll to the same guy over & over. After a couple weeks of this, when I tried to bring that up, they said not to QQ, because ... hey, he was there every night and did better dps than me! Umm, yes sure he did, he won ALL the drops! All this might still have been ok, if people hadn't reverted to saying QQ, for suggesting that random might not be best. You will avoid a huge pile of issues by implementing any kind of system, even if that system is very simple, like 1 win per person per night, or loot council, or whatever. Anything's better than random, if people are in there for gear they actually need.

Don't worry about the past - fix it, and give your warlock a solution, as a gift that's worth more than the loot he might have won.

[bosephus]

It's not clear from the original post, but did you try asking the mage whether he would willingly pass, knowing he already got one piece? Even if you didn't state a one person/one gear rule at the beginning, you only state that you had a /o conversation about it. Communication is key in this game, and in a ten man raid, it's a good opportunity to get people's opinion, much more so than in a 25'er.

Also, one thing we've done in the past is use the /readycheck feature as a "yea/nay" voting system. 'If you want to do Nightbane now, click Ready; if you want to do it later, click Not Ready'. Not everybody likes officers making decisions all the time, and throwing in a bit of democracy makes everybody feel like they can have a say and makes the officers look like they're attentive to their raid's opinions.

[Tobius]

I think you probably know this now but its much much better to let people know (yourself included) what is going to be happening with loot before items drop.

Trying to come up with rules or changing them as you are looking at the item after downing a boss is a recipe for disaster unfortunately.

Write off the item (it will drop again anyway), learn from the experiance and you shouldnt have the same issue again.

[Corise]

Kinslayer,

One unfortunate part to leading a raid is that we all have, or will at some point, have to make a decision that will make someone mad. Sometimes you make the right call and sometimes you don't, all we can do is reflect back on the situation and use that experience to influence our future ones.

As for my view on this event, I strongly feel at this point in the game "Loot rules" do not need to be explained. The mage should already know that taking the cloak meant he was ineligible for the helm. This is just a common practice of courtesy to the rest of your team. Being that this mage did not want to take it upon himself to be fair, and also being that my opinion that having both items is unfair, the responsibility to make sure everyone received the loot they deserved would fall on me to make the decision to tell him no on the helm.

In my own guild we use a zero-sum DKP system, but as you can read in other posts, this system has its flaws. All systems are as flawed as the people that abuse them. And when the time comes that someone does try to abuse the system we trust our leaders to make a call that is fair. So ask yourself, was your call fair. I can not tell you the answer to this as I was not there to see the actual events to unfold. If you think they were, then no big deal. But if you feel you made an error, maybe apoligize to the warlock and assure him that you will try to make better decisions in the future.

[orcstar]

We started Karazhan early and on some point were pretty good geared and ready to move on to 25 men content.
But ofcourse didn't have the people.

So I've lead a lot of raids in Karazhan gearing people up. Raid often consisting half of experienced people and half quite new.

At the beginning of the run I would always state the lootrules.
a) We roll for items, mainspec before offspec ofcourse.
b) I'm the evil masterlooter and may decide to ignore rolls.

Why, rolling might seem fair but it often turns out not to be. "In the end it evens out" people say. But that is not the case. What happens with rolling is this: few people get like 5 items others on average 2-3 and some will get nothing if you keep rolling. That doesn't seem fair to me. So if someone would get some items in a run and someone else would be unlucky I wouldn't have a problem giving it to the unlucky person.

Also biggest upgrade: item should go to the person who it is the biggest upgrade for? Nope, that's not fair either, because you forget that it's only the 2nd time in kara for the person who gets that big of an upgrade and didn't do the hard work of paying the wipe-gold to get the instance on farm so the mindblade didn't go to the mage but to the lock, for who it was not so big of an upgrade but he was there for the past 20 runs trying to get a chance for dropping.

I used this exact line on vent: "I'm the big bad masterlooter." and then explained a bit what that was. I was most popular for raiding kara, people always wanted to be in my groups and I got a lot of whispers what fun of a time they had.
People knew I was fair and knew I wouldn't use it to my own advantage.

[Caoin]

If I were you, I'd make a macro of loot rules and spam it at the start of raid and after each boss kill again before loot is distributed.

Also, not taking PUG people will help, if you are able to get a full guild group together. (I don't know what your guild makeup is, but if you are having trouble filling Kara raids and aren't in 25 man content yet, you may wan to just consider recruiting.)

IMO, should be one drop per person, mains before alts, mainspecs before offspecs if you are going to take nonguildies on your runs.