[Sangi]

I'm fairly new to raid leading. Our guild has been doing 25 mans for about 3-4 months. Our previous raid leaders have had to step out for various reasons. I have fallen into it by default but think that I do a decent job (all 25 man content kills have been under my direction). I've given up MTing so that I can better pay attention to the fight and what is happening.

Recently I have started to have some issues. Mostly with people trying to take over the raid. Officers and power raiders making call outs for battle rezes, inverates, wipe recover, giving out lists of all abilities of trash mobs instead of the ones that are important for the raids to know about (MC, cleaves, AoE attacks, etc). I have even had the issue of a raid member asking another out side of raids to bring a separate set of gear as he will be filling a different role next week. I have had whispers from some raid members saying that it gets confusing to them on what to do when there are multiple people attempting to run things.

Most of these I have been able to deal with with a whisper. It goes away for a while. But then comes back. Does any one that has been doing this for a while have any suggestion on how to handle these situations delicately?

[Artos]

The guild leader shouldn't tolerate this. Have a chat with him, and seriously discuss possible demotion of some officers.

[Shorty]

1. Listen to Cider's guild management podcast

2. Armed with Cider's advice, organise a meeting between 3-5 regular raiders/officers/guild leader. Come to an agreement about who will be responsible for what - healer assignments, etc. And then as a united force explain nicely that Person X is dealing with tank assignments, People Y and Z are the only ones who will be calling out for battle resses, Person X is dealing with trash "tactics", Person X boss tactics. Most important is to get a united group behind and with you - small enough that the rest of the raiders know who to talk to, big enough that between you you can watch most aspects of a fight.

[loquatious]

I like the idea of getting the talkers together to organize it. Only 1 person should be calling out for changes to healing assignments, battle rezzes, innervates. It doesent have to be the RL - so if you can make em happy delegate specific jobs to them and then squash them ruthlessly if they step out of those bounds.

[Kayella]

You're going to have to step on these people one way or another. Ouch. That can't go on.

The best way is probably as suggested, to get some consensus between people and stick with it.

And remember, you don't actually have to control everything as a raid leader. Sometimes having people assigned you do do these bits and pieces around the sides is a benefit and can allow you to focus on the big picture. So don't feel obliged to snatch all control back to yourself.

[Sangi]

I do divide out the responsibilities. The person managing the healers manages the innervates. Healing assignments are setup by the roles I request. Same with locks and DPS. I manage the BRs and the shaman pops. Your right I do need to step in and speak with these few people.

[Silthias]

This may not be the best method but i use a good cop bad cop method, we have about 3/4 officers in the raid, and when someone acts up, one of us will /w them and and tell them to stop, they also use /o to let the others know what they have done, after this, if they act up again saying things they shouldnt and generally trying to boss people about, then one of the other officers, over vent, tells everyone to be quiet and only to listen to the raid leader, Me, once they have then done that i tend to over vent acknowledge what has been said and then say why I didn't say it, all of this quite calmly. I know this is a strange way of doing it, but its gets a shock effect over the whole raid, but hen puts people back at ease after by explaining and making them feel like they are involved in all the decisions, even if they are not.

May not be any use, but seems to work for me.

Regards,

Silthais

[Foolishness]

giving out lists of all abilities of trash mobs instead of the ones that are important for the raids to know about

this is my pet hate. by the time they finish telling everyone about the abilities, the whole raid has fallen asleep.

My advice is to tell EVERYONE to shut the hell up. This way, people don't feel like they are being singled out, but they still know to shut the hell up. IMO its easier if you act as though you are a very frank/ blunt/ irritable person. This way people wont feel so bad when you put them in their place. Nice guys getting angry seems to cause more drama and make people feel weird.

[Sirq]

yoink posting errurz ;x

[Sirq]

Source: Foolishness this is my pet hate. by the time they finish telling everyone about the abilities, the whole raid has fallen asleep. My advice is to tell EVERYONE to shut the hell up. This way, people don't feel like they are being singled out, but they still know to shut the hell up. IMO its easier if you act as though you are a very frank/ blunt/ irritable person. This way people wont feel so bad when you put them in their place. Nice guys getting angry seems to cause more drama and make people feel weird.

agreed, i sense people creating a attitude barrier against me, which is not too savvy :P

but ppl are ought to be able to take crap from a raidleader, esp if they do something wrong, rather than talking their way out of it by ''zumg lag lulz''

as for the trash ability announcing, I usually have tanks and healers know exactly what to do, from my experience and it might be our dps'rs fault, that they only tend to learn if they die, so SSC back then it was ''Go hug the mushrooms'' and in BT it's ''Stay in the spinning sword, if gives mana cus it's blue''
just to lighten up the raid a bit cus the trash is so boring =]

[bludwork]

Lay down the law and enforce it. Like only the raid leader gets to decide who gets innervated or brezzed. We had the same issues way back on lurker, where a simple thing as who gets a battle rezzed cascaded into multiple people dying, confusion vent etc.

Sort it out in your raiding rules and then enforce it. If other officers are doing it, tell them to raise issues in officer chat instead of directly on their own, I suspect this is happening because you kind of took over raid leading reluctantly so they feel like they need to chime in and take over.

In case you have other senior members that aren't officers create a "vets" channel where they can input their comments. Basically a lot of this should be behind the scenes not in the raid or on vent.

[Sangi]

This has been resolved over the past few weeks mainly from two incidents. The main one was the folks who were the greatest offenders left for a more progressed guild (which then crashed and burned, Go Scheudenfraude!). The folks that remained have been more attentive.

I have also been working on a lot being more forceful and many things that have been recommended here. Suggestions come in whispers now except when I open it up for discussion. I don't get shout outs on vent during a boss fight unless I ask some one to handle something.

Things have actually been going really well lately. We got a really good group of people in recently. We two shotted Leo on our first night getting us to 5/6 SSC. And got karathress the week before. Once I get the core group settled down I think we will be cruising along.

[Foolishness]

Only issue for me about your situation now is that you said you gave up main tanking. For me main tanking has been one of the most rewarding parts of the game. I felt awkward at first trying to lead a raid and main tank at the same time (after leading on a warlock for so long) but you get used to it.

Just make sure you remember where you assigned everyone and watch their bars to monitor the fight.

I have my own health /rage bars enlarged and set up near the raid frames so I can look in the one spot to see all.

[Caoin]

Noone should be talking but the raid leader, really. Or officers if their raiding role is pertinent to the mobs you're killing.

My biggest peeve is people announcing on Vent when they die, or calling out "Soandso Mind Controlled" when they are not a tank or someone responsible for keeping tanks alive. I put up with it for a while, but now when it happens, I simply say "We don't care if you're dead/mind controlled/etc ad nauseum. Clear Vent." and people generally get the hint.

[Deletha]

Source: bludwork I suspect this is happening because you kind of took over raid leading reluctantly so they feel like they need to chime in and take over.

Dealing with the same thing myself. An extremely charismatic and experienced raid leader who's already been through the t6 content walked away with little to no warning for real life. Fine and dandy, but the raid got dropped into my and my co-leaders hands. Making it worse, he never said he was leaving for good, and many expect him to step back in and take over at some point. Makes my job soo much fun *read sarcasm here*. But, I'm learning the same things you are and its getting better.

[Sangi]

Source: Deletha Dealing with the same thing myself. An extremely charismatic and experienced raid leader who's already been through the t6 content walked away with little to no warning for real life. Fine and dandy, but the raid got dropped into my and my co-leaders hands. Making it worse, he never said he was leaving for good, and many expect him to step back in and take over at some point. Makes my job soo much fun *read sarcasm here*. But, I'm learning the same things you are and its getting better.

Uhhg feel for you. Things have been going a lot more smoothly lately. As I said the biggest perpetrators have left. I also started doing a few things that seem to be helping a lot. The first was to make sure I know every fight inside and out. That way I am not blindsided by a strat from people when they suggest it and I have reasons for doing things the way I am. Also trying to identify what went wrong if we wiped and then asking for comments from people about the fight and what can change. I don't always take their suggestions but people knowing that I will ask seems to help. For the people that are most vocal I send them a tell and have them whisper me things with the reasoning that having more than one persion giving orders confuses the raid.

I also have started delegating out responsibilities to some officers. One melee handles setting interrupt rotations. I don't touch healing setups at all other than we need X number on so and so. The healing leader also calls the innervates.