[Doc309]

We are making the jump into T5. but having a hard time of it.

we have 10-15 core players maxed out on T4/ZA/Badge/BoE gear.
we have 25-35 toons on most nights.
we run everynight for about 3 hours.
we dropped KA from the schedule, but still put 2-3 groups through a week treating it like an H and allowing Pugs.
we've cleared ZA 3-4 times (3rd phase is rough on us)
we started running ZA in two groups 3-4 bosses with one 5-6 with the other.
GL/ML one night clear (almost farm)

TK - VR 20%
SSC - Lurker 25% Hydross 60% (tanks working on resist gear)

added BT and MH epic trash runs ... clear to 1st boss in BT (69% on offgroup "lets try it") and 6/8 waves to Rage.

we get 3-5 players in every 25 that just can not "stay out of the fire".

we have a handful of players that only sign up for runs where there's something they want... starting to use ep (from ep/gp) to determine who gets invites.

we are recruiting but have been burned ... ie rogue who looted our 1st Mag kill and /gquit an hour later. hunter who "accidently" needed a HoD and couldn't find in to put in the GB.

we use the ep/gp loot system.
we "require" 3 raids a week, but if your on and a raid is short you're expected to show.

seems to me like we get 2-5 more good ppl in the core, we'll get take off, and burn through T5.

...

so that's where we are.
any words of advice?

thanks

/edit
my mains a hunter -- about 10 of us have multiple 70's so we can fill out a group and not burn out.

[Krashtork]

First of all: Tighten up loot rules. You should really be restricting what your members can and cannot pick up. New members should never get something unless absolutely no one else needs it. You can't trust them until they earn it. It's sad but it's something everyone must learn at some time.

Also, pick a single encounter and focus your energy on it. Both VR and Lurk need a few attempts to get used to. I would pick Lurk and focus a week on him. Getting him down will spark some motivation in people and up the moral.

You sound like you have a very solid base to work with already, you just need to stop spreading your raids so thin.

Instead of giving 5 encounters 20% of your efforts, give 1 encounter 100% of your effort. Maybe 2 encounters, but you know what I mean.

Focused efforts really pay off.

[Kamani]

Progression solves all problems. Don't do hyjal/bt trash runs. Don't do scheduled Kara/ZA. If you can't get enough people to do SSC/TK one night then just call the raid and make it open for people to pug whatever they want.

And if you can't kill Void Reaver, kick the people who die. There is honestly no excuse for dieing to orbs. If you die to VR orbs then you will continue to fail on every boss encounter left in the game.

[Jericho]

Not a huge fan of the "kick people who die" mentality, but Kamani is correct.

While Void Reaver's orb mechanic has changed and it is a touch more difficult of an encounter because of it, VR is not called "Loot Reaver" for nothing. If people are continually dying to orbs, what are they going to do versus Spout or Wrath of the Astromancer? Die and take your raid with them in Solarian's case.

I would agree with kamani's suggestion to go ahead and remove Kara from the "normal" schedule. Encourage people to lead guild or semi pug runs on your off days. ZA is a great gearing up tool, but in the end its just a badge farming tool and should be treated the same as Kara.

If you are a T4 turning into a T5 guild you have no place in Hyjal or Black Temple. Get yourself into TK and get Void Reaver dead. While I would agree, Lurker is probably the best choice in terms of "ease of kill", the overall benefit to the raid gear wise is 100x better with 3 pairs of tier 5 shoulders a kill versus maybe a priest trinket, a tank mace and some shaman mail that you will see more times than you wish to.



The biggest thing I can see though is that you say "we run everynight for about 3 hours". This is a bad thing. Pick three to four nights a week and have those as your set raid nights. Give people a couple of nights off to lounge and do random things. Do 25 mans on those nights and push the 10 mans to "optional" guild, semiguild, or pug runs on the offnights.

At this point VR is the ONLY thing in TK you are probably capable of by the sounds of it, so if your guild is raiding 3 nights a week, Gruul/Mags on the first, VR til you kill it, and then go have fun with Lurker. Move on to Hydross when your tanks have their resist gear.
In the end though, the logistics of the Sunwell badge gear should make every encounter easier for you than it was to the forerunners in each instance.

[Doc309]

focused on SSC for three days

first day about the same -- four wipes on lurker, respawns, ppl had to go
second day -- smooth pulls all the way there, lurker down 2nd try, moved on to first look at lethros 80% just to see how the fight went.
third day -- resist tanks show plagued by DC's damn thundersorms, but hydross 20%. well get him next week

this week were focusing on the Eye. i feel T5 coming...