[Buttah]

..that is the question. I'm a long time reader and used to be a very active "shoutboxer" here on Tankspot.

A bit of background info: I have been the Main Tank and co-GM of a "behind the times" semi-casual (read: 3 days a week, no required attendance) guild for the last 2 or so years. Within the last month we have recruited a new group of folks and moved from HKM/Gruul down to 4/6 SSC and 3/4 TK. I have also been promoted to GM full-time in this past month.

With Hyjal/BT attunements lifted the biggest question surrounding our guild is when we are going to go in and take a few stabs at Hyjal. There is a definite push from guild members (the hardest push coming from the most reliable raiders) and a push coming from a few to not step in until we down Vashj/Kael.

The problem comes when I realize that I am on the fence. I'd love to see the content of Hyjal/BT and push through it but at the same time the "completionist" part of me doesn't want to do so until we have the 2 other instances full cleared. My goal when I took over GM was to see Illidan before WOTLK. These attunements dropping have made this much, much easier.

I am primarily looking for advice and possibly some first-hand experience on what I should do here.

Here's the armory links to myself, 2 of my healers, and a couple of our dps to help make gear a either a non-issue or the deciding factor of whether we are ready or not. Most of our raid has this level of gear.

Buttah
Roshel
Tanc
Deepzz
Budwieser

[Ylun]

I would love to see an answer to this question. My raid force is pretty much in the same spot.

[Nicki]

There is no straight forward answer..

A guild on my server has 1/6 ssc 2/4 tk and they killed winterchill, winterchill has been pugged on my server too.

Personally id say try to go for vashj and kael but give them a night in hyjal if you can do the trash you can probably do the bosses. If you don't already have one get a paladin tank it makes hyjal soooo much easier (infact the pug had a warrior and a paladin tank and thats all they needed to kill trash he had about 15.8k unbuffed).

[Cynocide]

I'm actually pushing for this with the guild that I've become the main tank for but first, I gave all of the raid members a task in evaluating their gear and making a list of upgrades that can be obtained from T4/T5 content and in some cases heroics as well as enchants and gems.

[Skips]

I say create a week long vote, let your members feel like they can be part of the decision making process and give them a chance to show you which way they would rather go..maybe allow a discussion on the pros and cons of it as well?

[Kayella]

To be honest, what I'd do is put your main focus on downing ONE of Vashj and Kael right now (i.e. clearing one of those two instances). Splitting your time between both SSC and TK is going to be hard work with limited time on the schedule (I know, we did it, and I regretted it!), so try avoid it.

Perhaps have a look-see raid at Hyjal as a teaser reward for a good week, or to give you a bit of a break from the grind. Do go there, because people will enjoy it, and you should be able to kill Rage at least, and that's motivating. However, I wouldn't really focus there yet. Wait til you have one of the two instances cleared, and then start.

[MasterWolf]

My guild downs Rage and Naj now, and neither Vashj nor Kael are down yet. We're attempting to progress in MH and BT, but still save one of our raid days for Vashj until we get that B down.

[Nez]

As a gamer I would say that by skipping Vash and Kael you will be missing out on two very fun and rewarding fights. Both drop very nice gear as well. =] But I would see nothing wrong with taking a shot at Hyjal to see what its like and how your group does in there or even BT for that matter. Trying them would answer alot of question your group has about whether they are ready or not.

[Ciderhelm]

Just make sure you finish out Kael and Vashj at some point, probably after the 2-3 really easy encounters in BT/Hyjal, and I don't see any issues.

[ychro]

Winterchill is noob get yourself a pally tank and go pwn him. Trash drops, plus gear off him are nice and you can start working on your rep I hit friendly in the one run. I pugged him last night and did it in two attempts, well it was more like 3 guilds best player coming together. we took two groups za geared clearing 3 timers and brought in a couple more and got to anathereon, and then we found out how much we want fire resist. my current guild is only downing lurker in SSC and VR and Sollarian in TK. Cider is right though get vash and kael when you can, nice gear, and nice rings from the quest.

[Nicki]

I will say that vashj broke one of my guilds twice and really it was hard to notice who was not doing a good job..Our dps was topnotch atleast in the rogue and warlock department. Think of it as maggy pre ssc/tk attunement lifting. Void reaver = easy, Maggy = stressfull...

Killing winterchil can also create confidence which could be a good thing or a bad thing when going back for vashj or kael. My personal belief is that kael is the easier fight to learn not due to complexity but just because it is much more controlled in many ways and less miss haps can occur...

[OnourisofRavencrest]

My guild has downed all but archimonde in Mount Hyjal and was very close to downing Najentus on our first night in BT. However, we have not killed Kael and the guild has only once killed Vashj. Fortunately we are reversing ourselves on our previous push in MH/BT and going back to kill Kael and Vashj a few times. I am already exalted with the MH faction and have no ring to show for it. I do have a nice sword, cloak, chest piece and some gloves but would still much rather say I didn't skip a step, a little late for that I know but at least were going back to rectify it. I doubt that was the even close to the answer the original poster was looking for eh, I ramble.

[veneretio]

I don't think it's wise to go to Hyjal until you are 5/6 SSC and 3/4 TK and then as Cider says at some point you really have to bite the bullet and do Vashj and Kael.

[Joeker]

My guild just went through this. We were 5/6 SSC and 3/4 TK and stepped in to Hyjal. After two nights we have two bosses down and looking at a third. But i would at least down the boss you have left in SSC. Once you have those fights down Rage is a cake walk compared to some of the other fights in SSC and TK.

[Jericho]

Hyjal and BT are not all that difficult for any guild to complete if they are 5/6, 3/4. Most guilds that are lower in progression can clear a few bosses in hyjal with a little work. Will it be "easy"? Prolly not, but it will be a challenging and fun experience. Najentus is a much higher threshold to hit as his health and dps requirements are a bit higher than Rage and Anetheron.

In the end the benefits of the boss drops in lower Hyjal do not outweigh skipping Kael and Vashj. The end reward for Hyjal is not the T6, or the trash drops, its that damn ring. There really is no getting around the fact that its the best ring for damn near every class, and in and of itself is worth getting people their vials. Not to mention that alot of the Vashj/Kael drops are as good or better than most of the lower Hyjal drops. Add that to the fact that even after killing Illidan, the best designed and implemented encounter in the game remains the Kael fight. Hell it was so good they copied half of it for a 5man.

[Mitosis]

I think it would be in the best interest of your guild to schedule Hyjal. In my opinion it's like whetting their appetite for more content but also contributing to the progression on both Kael and Vashj with gear and increased Morale. If the schedule is 3 days a week, do T6 content one or two nights and spend the last night solely on EITHER Kael or Vashj. That way it's not stopping progression...but also getting more done. See what I'm trying to say?

[squishmitten]

The first 3 bosses in both BT and MH are really quite easy. My guild has not yet gotten Vashj and Kael, but we've gotten 4 in MH and 3 in BT. We have put attempts on Vashj and Kael on hold for now and intend to return to them after we have more T6 to hopefully make things a bit easier.

As well getting a jump on the hearts of darkness helps too.

[orcstar]

Vashj and Kael are imo really nice fights. They require a pretty good raid.

A fight like Najentus, most only requires a geared raid.