WotLK The Crawler Speaks

Ilya M · #1 08-31-2008, 07:17 PM

WoW Forums -> 8885 Protection: Extremely Disappointed

**Ciderhelm** · #2 08-31-2008, 07:49 PM

I dropped my comments in there as Syli.

**Worldie** · #3 08-31-2008, 08:07 PM

I quite liked this part

One of the designers mentioned the movie Gladiator the other day. Watch how Maximus uses his shield -- he isn't cowering behind it -- he's bashing people in the face with it. Shields should be a viable form of combat, not the option to avoid combat.

Don't know for warriors, but the paladin version of shield slam really hurts o_O

**Ciderhelm** · #4 08-31-2008, 08:35 PM

Source: Worldie
I quite liked this part

Don't know for warriors, but the paladin version of shield slam really hurts o_O

Watch the news.

**Worldie** · #5 08-31-2008, 09:17 PM

Damn that beats my best ShoR.

I need to find some silly build for bigger pewpew numbers, and need a DK for 13% more damage too :|

Minaba · #6 08-31-2008, 09:38 PM

The particular thread that GC posted in presents many legitimate tanking concerns and regardless of what she wrote in return, it's very good to know that she has read it and then asks for more feedback.

I saw a lot of discussion going on around tankspot over the weekend regarding how most of the new LK "utility" talents will possibly be ignored in Lv80 raid builds and those same doubts have been highlighted on the beta forum.

As for the idea Bliz are serious in attempting to make Prot PVP viable, she as good as quashed that idea for LK.
I think we will be improved in that department but that's as far as it will probably go.

I read out of her post there is more to come for us

**Worldie** · #7 08-31-2008, 09:56 PM

I'd be interested in seeing prot as a "disturbance" pvp build. Meaning that it's not dangerous, but having the prot warrior running around charging/stunning/fearing/disarming/interrupting/cooking pies could pose a real threat (and not just a nuisance) to the opposite team is interesting.

That would basically make the prot war the #1 target for CC tho. /reflect sheep anyone?

**Kamani** · #8 08-31-2008, 10:17 PM

wjfkladjkaiodhfaiosdfjoapsdfkals;dfjakdsjfaiopdsfj akl

Still not having a beta key is so damned frustrating. I want to write a decent response in that thread but I have no access to that forum.

/tear

**Ciderhelm** · #9 08-31-2008, 10:23 PM

Source: Worldie
I'd be interested in seeing prot as a "disturbance" pvp build. Meaning that it's not dangerous, but having the prot warrior running around charging/stunning/fearing/disarming/interrupting/cooking pies could pose a real threat (and not just a nuisance) to the opposite team is interesting.

That would basically make the prot war the #1 target for CC tho. /reflect sheep anyone?

Prot can do this already, and it's awful.

**Satrina** · #10 08-31-2008, 10:30 PM

I really wish they would just throw away the idea of balancing PvP into protection. I couldn't possibly care less about PvP. Give me some decent DPS when my tank target is dead, give me some useful utility to bring to the raid, and call it done.

**bosephus** · #11 09-01-2008, 12:19 AM

I'm not in beta (/sigh), but looking at these talents, it seems that many of the lower tier prot talents aren't about staying alive, but dealing damage. Since Shield Slam is now trainable, wouldn't it be better to only put 20 points into Protection to grab most of the mitigation talents and throw the rest into Fury? I always thought the problem with hybrid talent trees as currently implemented were 1. Shield Slam required so many points and 2. Enrage and Flurry were linked. Now neither is the case and with so many points, a lot of things are reachable.

I mean, after the third tier in Protection (Toughness), the only mitigation talents are Improved Defensive Stance, Shield Mastery, and Critical Block. Those aren't that game breaking, I think. Whereas Titan's Grip, Unending Fury to refresh Bloodthirsts (more threat with Tactical Mastery), +20% crit to Heroic Strikes that proc Flurry, Rampage for an additional 5% crit, trainable Shield Slams, and +5% to hit (precision and weapon mastery), +120% dmg to Cleave all look tempting, sound pretty competitive for building aggro, and are within reach with just 20 pts in Prot. A 0/41/30 build even will get you more mitigation, but I kinda like the idea of using a 2H with a shield (can always switch to a fast weapon for dumping rage mid fight!).

**Slobash** · #12 09-01-2008, 02:24 AM

titans is now the 51 pt talent in fury FYI.....

Ilya M · #13 09-01-2008, 03:00 AM

WoW Forums -> 8885 Protection: Extremely Disappointed

More Feedback from le crab

and more here

WoW Forums -> Ghost: Warrior Report (8820)

**salihe** · #14 09-01-2008, 03:46 AM

This is just a knee-jerk reaction, but.....fuck making prot more "viable" for PvP. Correct me if I'm wrong, but WoW was created with the intent of being a PvE game, and PvP was thrown in as sort of an after-thought. But, then you have people whining that they're too lazy and don't have the skill to actually progress in the "real" world, so they demand more and more pvp content, and welfare epics, so they, "can walk around in all purp's, just like everyone else." Except it doesn't mean a shit. I absolutely hate pvp, and even I could invest enough time wandering around AV to get a full Merc set.

My point is, tanking isn't supposed to be viable for pvp. If a warrior wants to run bgs endlessly, that's his/her choice, but do it as arms or fury, and leave the rest of us the fuck alone. We want to tank. We don't want to kill other players. We don't give a shit if it takes 3 times as long to do dailies (tho that is slightly annoying, but it's a price we pay gladly). WE WANT TO TANK! That's it, and that's all. Why Blizzard continually seems to want to force those of us willing to put in the work down to the lvl of the mindless dipshits running around, collecting honor, is beyond me.

Oh, and give me a break. The explanation given about the nerfed TC cd was pathetic. Considering the fact that it barely does jack shit now, and we aren't able to use it often enough to make up for that fact, why would they possibly think that maybe adding a ridiculous 10% dmg (just a random number I'm throwing out, cuz blizz seems to like multiples of 10) and doubling the CD almost, would somehow make it better?

It almost seems like the people that are coming up with this shit have never tanked a day in their lives.

Oh, and one more thing....don't even get me started on the entire homogenization of tanks in general. That pisses me off to no end, and it's the one thing that, if taken too far, would make me seriously consider saying fuck tanking and going and having fun with heroic leap and titans grip.

Keep in mind that I mentioned at hte beginning that this is my initial knee-jerk reaction. I don't think my opinion is going to change, however, unless Blizz does some serious work. It was bad enough when 75% of the game started walking around in fucking Merciless this, or Merciless that. Now, they want to make the classes the same way? Might as well add a class randomizer at the toon creation screen, just like the name generator already there.

Ugh. Wtf are they doing to my beloved job? /uncontrollable crying

**Ciderhelm** · #15 09-01-2008, 03:58 AM

Source: salihe
My point is, tanking isn't supposed to be viable for pvp. If a warrior wants to run bgs endlessly, that's his/her choice, but do it as arms or fury, and leave the rest of us the fuck alone. We want to tank. We don't want to kill other players. We don't give a shit if it takes 3 times as long to do dailies (tho that is slightly annoying, but it's a price we pay gladly). WE WANT TO TANK! That's it, and that's all. Why Blizzard continually seems to want to force those of us willing to put in the work down to the lvl of the mindless dipshits running around, collecting honor, is beyond me.

I wholeheartedly disagree with your view on what Protection should be limited to.

**salihe** · #16 09-01-2008, 04:30 AM

Source: Ciderhelm
I wholeheartedly disagree with your view on what Protection should be limited to.

Then why do we put so much emphasis on threat generation, which is completely useless in pvp? I don't know much about resiliance (sp), but I do understand that it's pretty much a requirement in bg's, and again, in our normal tanking gear, it's completely ignored.

I guess I don't see the point of making prot more viable in pvp when it's not the original intent of the spec to begin with. Maybe I have an outdated view (as I've mentioned in other places, as well, lol), but I very much have a this-is-how-things-are-supposed-to-be mindset, and it's always been in my mind that prot is for tanking, not pvp. Oh sure, there have been a few times that I've run around in WSG or whever, laughing as the allies hit me and hit me and hit and yelled in frustration that they couldn't bring me down (now, bring in a spriest, and I'm screwed), but those times were generally amusing diversions.

Maybe it's my overall bias against pvp as a whole, and the fact that people can get better gear than I actually have to work for. It took me a long time to even get a set of gear suitable to start tanking kara, while others ran bgs for a week and we're gtg.

Anyway, may I ask why you disagree?

**Ciderhelm** · #17 09-01-2008, 06:05 AM

Source: salihe
Then why do we put so much emphasis on threat generation, which is completely useless in pvp? I don't know much about resiliance (sp), but I do understand that it's pretty much a requirement in bg's, and again, in our normal tanking gear, it's completely ignored.

I guess I don't see the point of making prot more viable in pvp when it's not the original intent of the spec to begin with. Maybe I have an outdated view (as I've mentioned in other places, as well, lol), but I very much have a this-is-how-things-are-supposed-to-be mindset, and it's always been in my mind that prot is for tanking, not pvp. Oh sure, there have been a few times that I've run around in WSG or whever, laughing as the allies hit me and hit me and hit and yelled in frustration that they couldn't bring me down (now, bring in a spriest, and I'm screwed), but those times were generally amusing diversions.

Maybe it's my overall bias against pvp as a whole, and the fact that people can get better gear than I actually have to work for. It took me a long time to even get a set of gear suitable to start tanking kara, while others ran bgs for a week and we're gtg.

Anyway, may I ask why you disagree?

When I rolled a Warrior, it wasn't to be a tank -- I didn't even know what tanking was -- it was to be a Warrior. I spent the first several months I was level 60 just doing world PVP.

I came to appreciate tanking and the sword & shield dynamic. It's more dynamic to me than Arms or Fury ever was (though I also loved Fury). It's a very specific playstyle that allows for skill, reaction, and thoughtfulness.

However, the playstyle I enjoy is not tanking, it's Protection. Since it's clear that Blizzard believes Protection can be more than tanking while still encompassing tanking, I couldn't be more excited for Wrath.

**Worldie** · #18 09-01-2008, 06:09 AM

Source: Ciderhelm
Prot can do this already, and it's awful.

Prot can do it, but not in a enough effective way to be of any harm to the other team. You can safely ignore the prot warrior at the moment.

**Ciderhelm** · #19 09-01-2008, 06:11 AM

Source: Worldie
Prot can do it, but not in a enough effective way to be of any harm to the other team. You can safely ignore the prot warrior at the moment.

Let me be more blunt. Playing a class where the sole duty is to act as glorified CC is a horrible, annoying approach. Fortunately, that's not at all the direction Prot is going at the moment in WotLK.

**Slobash** · #20 09-01-2008, 06:12 AM

As much as I admire you cider I don't think you're in a majority there. While i'd like to be able to go out into the world in protection spec and not be a target for gankers (ie i'd like some more pvp viability) and get my dailies done, and even spend some time in BGs getting some tokens i'd like to do it without sacrificing our raid tanking talents. And at the moment it seems like we're losing some tanking perks and gaining pvp viability and people aren't happy.