[jere]

With the release of upcoming content patch players will see a change in the way we allow buffs and debuffs to stack exclusively in a raid. For the most part, what this change means is that many buffs and debuffs that were previously allowed to stack together no longer can, and that many buffs and debuffs that only a single talent specialization could bring can now be brought by multiple different specializations. The philosophy behind this change shows up in many of the changes we have made in Wrath of The Lich King, such as when we made almost all buffs raid-wide. We want players to be able to form raids and parties based on who they want to play with, rather than who has the correct talents and abilities to min-max their raid performance. Raid composition will still matter to some extent, but without this change, it would have overwhelmed every other aspect of raid planning (as we added new capabilities to each of 30 different talent trees). You no longer need to rigidly control the melee/spellcaster balance of your raid, or make sure every group has all the critical buffing classes, etc. This change has many class balance implications. IMPORTANT! Before we are done, we will thoroughly test the performance of every class. It should not be assumed that one class' current performance relative to others in beta is final. Some classes (and specializations) will need to be reduced in power and some increased. Many may feel the change has more impact on class X than class Y. We will address all of those concerns via our internal testing and community feedback. There are thirty or so different categories into which buffs and debuffs fit. Here you will find a comprehensive list of the changes made broken down by category and which spells/talents are in that category. Armor Debuff (Major): Acid Spit (exotic Hunter pet), Expose Armor, Sunder Armor Armor Debuff (Minor): Faerie Fire, Sting (Hunter pet), Curse of Recklessness Physical Vulnerability Debuff: Blood Frenzy, (2nd Talent Spec TBA) Melee Haste Buff: Improved Icy Talons, Windfury Totem Melee Critical Strike Chance Buff: Leader of the Pack, Rampage Attack Power Buff (Flat Add): Battle Shout, Blessing of Might Attack Power Buff (Multiplier): Abomination's Might, Trueshot Aura, Unleashed Rage Ranged Attack Power Buff: Hunter's Mark (only Hunters benefit, so no need to exclude against other class abilities) Bleed Damage Increase Debuff: Mangle, Trauma Spell Haste Buff: Wrath of Air Totem Spell Critical Strike Chance Buff: Moonkin Aura, Elemental Oath Spell Critical Strike Chance Debuff: Improved Scorch, Winter's Chill Increased Spell Damage Taken Debuff: Ebon Plaguebringer, Earth and Moon, Curse of the Elements Increased Spell Power Buff: Focus Magic, Improved Divine Spirit, Flametongue Totem, Totem of Wrath, Demonic Pact Increased Spell Hit Chance Taken Debuff: Improved Faerie Fire, Misery Percentage Haste Increase (All Types): Improved Moonkin Aura, Swift Retribution Percentage Damage Increase: Ferocious Inspiration, Sanctified Retribution Critical Strike Chance Taken Debuff (All types): Heart of the Crusader, Totem of Wrath Melee Attack Speed Slow Debuff: Icy Touch, Infected Wounds, Judgements of the Just, Thunderclap Melee Hit Chance Reduction Debuff: Insect Swarm, Scorpid Sting Healing Debuff: Wound Poison, Aimed Shot, Mortal Strike, Furious Attacks Attack Power Debuff: Demoralizing Roar, Curse of Weakness, Demoralizing Shout Stat Multiplier Buff: Blessing of Kings Stat Add Buff: Mark of the Wild Agility and Strength Buff: Strength of Earth Totem, Horn of Winter Stamina Buff: Power Word: Fortitude Health Buff: Commanding Shout, Blood Pact Intellect Buff: Arcane Intellect, Fel Intelligence Spirit Buff: Divine Spirit, Fel Intelligence Damage Reduction Percentage Buff: Grace, Blessing of Sanctuary Percentage Increase Healing Received Buff: Tree of Life, Improved Devotion Aura Armor Increase Percentage Buff: Inspiration, Ancestral Healing Cast Speed Slow: Curse of Tongues, Slow, Mind-numbing Poison. In each category, you can only benefit from the most powerful spell granting that effect. For example, Fel Intelligence grants spirit and intellect, both weaker than Arcane Intellect and Divine Spirit. If a player has Fel Intelligence and receives a stronger Arcane Intellect buff, he will gain the intellect value from Arcane Intellect and the spirit value from Fel Intelligence. In most cases, fully-talented players will have exactly equal power on the strength of these buffs and debuffs. Fel Intelligence is an example of where one ability is weaker than others. The buffs in the "Increased Spell Power Buff" category are also not all the same potency, as they scale and grow in radically different ways. In virtually every other case, however, the buffs are equal. This means, for example, that fully-talented Battle Shout and Blessing of Might now grant the exact same amount of attack power. In addition to this change, we also needed to address the "mana battery" roles in a raid. The mana regeneration effect they grant is no longer limited to their own party, and it no longer depends on the amount of damage they deal. Each time they trigger the mana regeneration effect, 10 people in their raid group will receive a buff which causes them to regenerate 0.5% of their maximum mana each second. This buff, Replenishment, will be given preferentially to raid members with the lowest mana, but will re-evaluate which raid members receive it each time it is fired. Replenishment is provided by Shadow Priests, Survival Hunters, and Retribution Paladins. Finally, we have modified Heroism and Bloodlust to affect the entire raid. However, all affected raid members will be unable to cast or benefit from Bloodlust/Heroism for 5 minutes. Below you will find a list of the changes to abilities which exhibit new behavior regardless of the exclusive categories. The changes usually mean the old behavior was removed and replaced by the new behavior. Numbers listed are for maximally-talented versions. Here is that list of changes: Improved Scorch: Increases spell critical strike chance against the target. Winter's Chill: Also increases spell critical strike chance against the target. Elemental Oath: Grants 5% spell crital strike to raid members. Improved Moonkin Aura: Grants 3% haste of all types. Earth and Moon: Increases spell damage taken from all schools by 13% on the target. Misery: Causes spells cast at the target to have +3% spell hit. Shadow Weaving: Buffs only self. Improved Shadow Bolt: Buffs only self. Expose Weakness: Buffs only self. Shadow Embrace: Buffs only self. Blood Pact: Grants health instead of Stamina. Fel Intelligence: Has replacement ranks that grant flat values of Intellect and Spirit. Frost Aura: Excludes properly against all other resistance buffs. Grace: Reduces damage taken by target by 3%. Rampage: Increases melee and ranged critical strike chance by 5% for the raid. Improved Faerie Fire: No longer benefits melee and ranged hit chance, only spell hit. Hunter's Mark: No longer increases attack power bonus from attacks against the target. Improved Hunter's Mark: No longer grants melee attack power. Sting (Hunter pet): Now acts as a minor armor debuff. Waylay: Attack speed reduction changed to 20%. Icy Touch: Only slows melee attack speed (not ranged or spell). Tree of Life: No longer grants healing based on spirit, grants 3% increased healing received to raid. Demonic Pact: Now buffs raid instead of debuffing monsters. Focus Magic: Now buffs raid instead of debuffing monsters. Totem of Wrath: Now grants a flat amount of spell damage, and all enemies in its radius have an increased chance of being struck by criticals. Heroism: Cannot be recast while caster has Exhausted debuff, and those with Exhausted debuff cannot be affected by it. Bloodlust: Cannot be recast while caster has Sated debuff, and those with Sated debuff cannot be affected by it. Vampiric Touch: Grants Replenishment mana regeneration buff to up to 10 raid members on dealing damage. Hunting Party: Grants Replenishment mana regeneration buff to up to 10 raid members on specified shots. Judgements of the Wise: Grants Replenishment mana regeneration buff to up to 10 raid members on Judging.

MMO-Champion BlueTracker - 3.0.2 - On Debuffs, Buffs, and Raid Stacking

[jere]

So some interesting things here:

1. LotP and Rampage do not stack (expected)
2. BoM and Battle Shout do not stack
3. Blood Pact and Commanding Shout do not stack

[Worldie]

The most interesting tbh is here


Damage Reduction Percentage Buff: Grace, Blessing of Sanctuary


Maybe Blessing of Sanctuary will actually become something useful?

[jere]

I hope it will be a hand spell rather than a blessing if so. Having two talented blessings in one tree kinda stinks.

[TomHuxley]

And the attempt to beat any variety out of the game continues...

[AnvilDK]

Source: TomHuxley And the attempt to beat any variety out of the game continues...

Hmm if anything this is very much not true.

raid composition will most likely be spread out on tanks healers dps. If some utility power is missing chances are you have another class capable of the same feat with a respec.

Less chance of a cancelled raid. Bigger kudos to the people who are willing to adjust for the good of the raid.

Being socially well balanced and able to perform well when the guild raids will be a much bigger factor in the future. Your class utility will not garanti anything if you decied to be a jerk.

Good changes.

Will mean the end of cookie cutter raid compositions.

Anvil

[bondetamp]

I wonder if this means Battle Shout will ow affect ranged AP.

[Krashtork]

Source: TomHuxley And the attempt to beat any variety out of the game continues...

I fully agree with this. Quit "fixing" things that aren't broken Blizzard. FFS things already work...

[mero12513]

Krash, I really don't think it works like they want it too. People have to give up their raid spots because we need a specific buff. That frustrates players. More happier players = more money for blizzard. More participation by anyone is a fix in their mind.

[Alent]

Tom & Krash, I disagree: this is salvaging the game for people like me.

I've had to sit out far too many archimonde raids because only 5 melee could get tremor totem at once.

[Wars]

One thing I'm really happy about here is that we(Warriors) no longer will want a lock in our tank group anymore! We can mix in other more useful things like a dps war/enh shaman or bm hunter. Though we lose some hp, obviously things will be balanced around this and won't really hurt, where we increase our ability to put out even more tps.

I think we're(Warriors/Druids/Pals/DKs) really going to be monsters of threat compared to live when we're raiding at 80, all these new things seem like its going to be crazy tps total once they finish our prot tree(read:warriors).

[*Siona*]

Source: Wars One thing I'm really happy about here is that we(Warriors) no longer will want a lock in our tank group anymore! We can mix in other more useful things like a dps war/enh shaman or bm hunter. Though we lose some hp, obviously things will be balanced around this and won't really hurt, where we increase our ability to put out even more tps. I think we're(Warriors/Druids/Pals/DKs) really going to be monsters of threat compared to live when we're raiding at 80, all these new things seem like its going to be crazy tps total once they finish our prot tree(read:warriors).

Well, actually since the warrior, hunter, and shaman buffs are all going raid wide as well, it won't matter what group we're in.

[Tatt]

I agree with alent about the class requirements, but I am also afraid of what might become class stacking. On a melee friendly fight, in a situation like this, I can see a 25 man raid bringing as many as 12-15 rogues simply because they can potentially outdps all other classes with certain gear, or warlocks, or ret pallies, or whatever you want to choose. Without as much dependance on group makeup, it could be a 2 edged sword.

[Alent]

Source: Wars One thing I'm really happy about here is that we(Warriors) no longer will want a lock in our tank group anymore! We can mix in other more useful things like a dps war/enh shaman or bm hunter. Though we lose some hp, obviously things will be balanced around this and won't really hurt, where we increase our ability to put out even more tps. I think we're(Warriors/Druids/Pals/DKs) really going to be monsters of threat compared to live when we're raiding at 80, all these new things seem like its going to be crazy tps total once they finish our prot tree(read:warriors).

I don't mean to burst your bubble here... but when did you ever get a lock in the tank group? Blood Pact is such a rarity these days I forget the buff even exists half the time. Every rare now and then I meet an affliction lock but everyone's sac/destro.

[Worldie]

I think last time i got a lock in tank group was Twin eredars, just cause he tanks too :\

[jere]

I got one in my group earlier this week. Unfortunately, the raid leader didn't realize it was the kind that sacked their pets.