[niklakov]

Hey Everyone,

This is my first post on here so ill give some quick background. I am a bit of a nub to WOW. I started 3 months ago and worked really hard to get to 70. I have some decent gear now and meet all the requirements stats wise for Kara and heroics. (At least from what i read I do) I have mostly epics now so I dont hear "you need better gear" anymore which is good. But that being said now that i am mostly epics people expect more of me. many of my epics I got in Kara which in my opinion is very easy to tank. One on One bosses are my strength.
Where I am having trouble is in heroics. Holding aggro and dealing with Mobs.
I am feeling a bit frustrated with my tanking abilities as I am not sure if it is me that sucks or my gear or soemthing else.
I was feeling pretty sorry for myself after my performance last night in heroic Arc and Bot. To the point of contemplating giving up WOW. A tank that can't hold aggro is useless i told myself, and thought about all the time i had invested trying to get here only to find out i couldnt do my job properly. Its a lousy feeling when you let your mates down and get them killed when its your responsibilty to protect them.
So i began to read today to find out what was wrong with me. Why cant I hold Aggro??? In easier dungeons I have no problems with threat but in the heroic dungeons with a well geared group I simply lose the mobs attention and very early on.

So i started reading today about warrior tanking and watching youtube videos and have come to realize that maybe one of the problems is simply that I am slow and i need to get faster.
When I Offtank for our resident tankadin I marvel at his ability to hold multiple mobs with ease. Whats wrong with me??? Why cant i do that I ask myself. Is it consecration? From what i can see it seams to work really well for pallys. Its a a threat generating ability that is fueled by HP which is in ready supply with a healer.
My T-Clap simply does not generate aggro the way consecration does and it requires rage. T-clap slows down a mobs attack speed consideraply which nerfs rage genning ability as well (although it mitigates damage and running speeds which is usually extremely helpful). Also I need to hit each target with my sword before the dps comes and the dps needs to focus on one target at a time or all hell breaks loose when im in a heroic.

A good tankadin seems able to grab aggro immediatley and hold it with ease (im assuming using conscecration) but as a warrior tank, i feel like the group needs to be more patient with me and wait for me generate enough Aggro to hold the mob before DPS attacks even if it means everyone standing there and watching me until I lay my Devs down. I also need all DPS to be aimed at the primary target and work the kill order in a heroic or the mob breaks loose and i lose control. With our resident tank pally this does not seem to be neccessary.

Personally I feel like my aggro is everyone in the groups responsibilty and everyone should have a threat meter. When they are about to surpass my threat I need them to simply stop attacking. That being said the faster I can tank the better (perhaps i am a bit slow at this still since i am still kinduva nub to tanking). But that just takes practice (and maybe some mouseover sunder macros im setting up tonight).
Perhaps my attacking speed on multiple targets is where I am failing which is why I can tank big bosses (any kara bosses) but have so much trouble with mobs. Maybe DPS in most of my groups is simply accustomed to a faster tank? When Pugging I find myself hoping the DPS sucks because although it will taker much longer I wont have to fight them for aggro at least!

CC also makes it difficult when multitanking sometimes. If a sheep or frostrap breaks and heads for the healer its a very difficult situation for me. I ask myself should i go for the runner and risk losing the mob or will it be re-sheeped? When I do let it go sometimes it does not get re-sheeped and kills the healer or when i try and pick it up whilst my sword is swinging towards the target (which cannot be canceled) it is re-sheeped a split second before i hit the target thereby breaking the sheep and pissing off the mage.
If sheep is not executed early enough you end up with a mob that needs to be AOED and cleaved but you cannot because their is a stupid sheep in the center of the mob and if you move it back to get the mobs away from the sheep (assuming no casters running around) you are afraid your party will not move back behind you as well (which often they dont) making things even more difficult!
And ice traps break seem to break alot especially on leets.
When I get faster (and employ my mousever attack macros properly) will CC no longer be needed for a mob of 4 or 5?

Also when a mage pyroblasts away early into a fight and aggros im not gonna turn around and taunt them back anymore and lose the rest of the mobs aggro causing a wipe. No Im gonna let him die because thats the only way hes going to learn.
Well anyways i Dont mean to winge but it can be a very stressful jobs sometimes, I really hope and believe in the end it will be worth it. When a run goes well and everyone is safe and gets their loot its one of the most rewarding feelings a tank can have.

My stats are the following. I have 500 Def 138% avoidance 15% Dodge 18% Parry 19% Block 16K Armor and 13k HP unbuffed.
I guess what I really want to know is what the hell I am doing wrong in these heroics. Is everyone just used to a faster or better tank and not giving me enough time to get aggro? Any advice or tips would really be appreciated I need to get better at this.

[Stearns]

Dude RELAX! Yes you ARE a complete tanking noob dont take that the wrong way though. Imo, tanking is the hardest role in wow, and yes, it is stressful at time. It takes time to learn. It really does. So just put in the time, and dont expect instant results. If you want an easy job, roll a mage :P

Seriously tho, the reason dps pull threat off you has to do with their gear relative to yours. As you gear up, they wont be able to pull off you so easily. Thats purely the mechanics of the game (assuming you're clicking the right buttons).

As you become more experienced, you'll know whether the mage is disrespecting the rules of threat (there IS a place for that when you get more advanced) or whether the mage is so far beyond you in gear, that you shouldnt be in the same group.

Personally, I love tanking and I cant imagine enjoying another class as much. But its been a long road. So hang in there. Oh, and dont compare yourself to other tank classes and think they "have it easier". Each tank class has unique strengths and weaknesses. Hope this helps you.

[dirt]

I can feel your pain. I suffered through the exact same thing last night in H. Ramparts, which I have run a few times on heroic. I just joined a new guild last week, our guild is a decent size but not alot of 70s and only a few of us have even stepped foot in a heroic. I figured, let me take the initiative and schedule a run. For some reason I thought Ramparts wouldn't be that bad as I had just done it a week or so prior with a PuG and it was about as smooth a run as I've ever had in a pick-up group. Furthermore, the group make-up was exactly the same as the PuG I was in prior, so I thought ok this will be cake. That was my first mistake. The group consisted of me(Prot warrior), 2 hunters, rogue and priest. From the first pull it did not do well, much like you are describing not being able to hold aggro, traps not holding or getting broke, spotty healing, dps stealing aggro, healer getting 1 shotted, etc. Any way 30g in repairs later I told the group I think its best to call it quits. Needless to say I felt like shit afterward, but being that they were all my guildies and all very nice, no one was angry or pissed. And to add insult to injury we had horrific lag that on one pull totally froze me up for like 20 secs on a easy pull, when I could move again I was already dead. But, I still felt extremely deflated. The whole run left me scratching my head a bit, as I said earlier I had done the run prior with the same group makeup and we only had 1 wipe on Omar the time prior. But then I realized the guildies I were with I had never run a heroic instance before. Most of them were use to BGs and had limited instance experience.

Afterward, my girlfriend(one of the hunters in the group) suggested we try something else, so we decided to do Durnholde(on regular) and it went as smooth as glass. Not one death or wipe, we even had a miscue by our rogue who pulled the pat & 4mobs at the keep entrance by accident, but were able to pull it out. And in the end people were happy and we all got to work together and hopefully learn a few things, myself included.

Ironically enough, for being a meat-shield the tank is effectively the quarterback of the group. You have to retain and process alot of information quickly as well as try to keep everyone alive. I've come to learn in my short time tanking that even if you do everything spot on, all it takes is one mistake to cause a wipe. And if you couple that with inexperience and lack of knowledge about mobs and pulls by the group it only makes things worse.

I don't have any great words of wisdom, all you can do is keep tanking, try to learn and get better and help those you group with do the same. I've concluded there will be good runs and bad ones. Thats all there is to it, but don't lose heart. I think all of the tanks in here have suffered through these kind of experiences to some degree or another. I love tanking and will not stop, I'll keep trying to damnest to learn and get better, you should continue to do the same.

[protonly]

I'm not necessarily a tanking noob but I am when it comes to Warrior tanking. I tanked a kara a week or so ago and last night I was asking a friend how I did (he just happens to be the best lock on my server) and he said: "You did fine. I did pull aggro on trash but that was just me doing what I do to everyone." So the point is that "it happens" all of us and we lose aggro eventually.

AOE tanking on a warrior is a bitch at times - you simply have to work whereas a pally can shit a consecrate and tab out for a few minutes.

One thing I learned the hard way: 90% of tanking is positioning. Position your loose mobs away from cc'd mobs so you can multi-tank easier. 2-3 mobs is rather easy to handle...more than four is more difficult (tclap only hits 4 targets) but can be done. So yeah you can run a heroic and such with no cc and do fine but it's a LOOOOOT more work. I don't know what the other 10% is...prolly gear adn skill but I haven't figured that out yet.

Just keep trying

[Muffin Man]

Yes, Pally's excel at AoE tanking. But Warriors excel at boss tanking. So don't worry that you're dps can't aoe like they can when a pally is tanking. Single target dps with a warrior tank can go just as fast sometimes.

About heroics though, I realized very quickly that going from the hardest lvl 70 instance to the 'easiest' heroic is a huge step up.

For example I ran shatted halls with no problem even with the big pulls, but when I tried to run H Ramps, I almost immediately lost 2 out of 3 mobs!

The reason being, everything hits *very* hard in heroics. That means healing aggro is through the roof. This is bad because that's global aggro, which means you have to aoe tank. In normal dungeons you don't have to do very much of that and can just single target tank so dps can drop targets fast.

I'd suggest using as much cc as you can. Even if it's a 2 man pull, you may as well CC one of them and single target tank them one after the other.

This is the other thing I've noticed about heroics. DPS who can cc better know how to do it. If you try to tank 4 mobs at once in a heroic, chances are they'll squish you like a bug or the healer is working so hard to keep you standing, there's no way you'll keep aggro off the healer. So be sure to mark everything real clearly, don't let rogues sap the closest target/who they feel like. If you have a mage, make sure he's got something to sheep. If you trust the hunter to trap have him do it. Ect. You have no idea how entertaining (and easy) BF gets when you let the priest MC half the mobs.

Also, your stats are much higher than mine, and I can do 1/2 of the heroics no problem. So if you're still having trouble with aggro you can swap some tank gear for dps gear. Something like changing your rings to something with hit rating and agility instead of something with stamina and defense. And there's always enchanting your gloves for 2% threat, although that's an expensive option.

[Maleus]

Im a prot pally, that has rerolled to a warrior. Comparing pally tanks to warrior tanks is essentially apples to oranges.

I think what you might need is a quick run down of how pallys can aoe tank so easily before you try to figure out why they are good at what they do.

Pally tanking 101:

Step one buff with righteous fury (+90% threat from holy damage)

Step two: activate ret aura (holy damage taken by mob every time the pally is hit)

Step three: Cast concecrate (holy damage to all mobs around the paladin)

Step four: cast holy shield (holy damage with additional threat for each blocked attack, up to 8 blocks)

Step five: cast seal of righteousness (holy damage per attack done by the paladin)

Step six: throw holy shield

Thats it, as you can see Steps 1 - 3 are always on basically, so the only things needed for the paladin to do is concecrate, holy shield, seal, repeat. Tons of aggro from all mobs, because for every attack done to the paladin, threat is built. So its not one on one threat like what warriors do. Up side to paladins is that they can front load threat strictly on the pull. Holy shield plus concecrate, is almost 2k threat before dps even sees the mob.

Now for warrior tanking, from what ive learned in my short 45 levels of learning.

Kill order definately helps. Dont think thunderclap is like concerate, and shouldnt be used like it. Its additional threat, but not constant like concecrate. Dont limit yourself to staying on one mob, and thinking thunderclap will keep the rest on you, while not setting up a kill order for dps. It dont work like that. Set your kill order, thunderclap when all mobs are there, stack a few sunders, tab, sunder, tab sunder generate a lil threat on all of them. You arent dps, you being on the target doesnt matter, as long as the mob is on you. If its at 5% health, change targets, work your threat up on the next target, so dps can instantly start on it.

Tanking on a pally is easy mode essentially. And they make wonderful tanks. But on boss mobs, pally tanks fall short to warriors. Warriors get uncrushable easier. Pallys are limited by mana, and as such mana conservation must play a role in thier tanking. Pulling 5 mobs at a time tanking them all seems extremely efficient until the group has to wait on the pally to drink after every pull. An OOM pally, is as useful as tits on a bull. Extended boss fights can be dangerous if the paladin doesnt know how to keep his mana, the mana regen from healing can cause just enough threat loss to wipe a raid if the paladin doesnt know what hes doing.

You seem to have the right tank mentality, as you are stepping up to the plate to help your guild move forward. A tank essentially controls the pace at which a group/raid/sometimes guild moves. You make the pulls, you decide when to pull. If you are in a group, whether it be a raid, pug, guild 5 man, take control. Ask for lead of the group, set up the kill order, mark the mobs. If you get nuke happy casters, or huntards who think that an arrow is enough threat, let them die (not your healer though). If they get mad and bail, replacements are easy for dps. Dont be afraid to remind people (let me get threat, "wait for 3 sunders") Ive been in wonderful groups that knew to let the tank get threat before dpsing. Ive been in groups to where it was a nightmare. Groups like that.. cut your losses, and save the repair bill.

[Grulgor]

Buddy, this happened to me as soon as I hit heroics, and even prior to that.

Right now, you have roughly the same stats as me, and probably have The Kings's Defender from Chess. Knowing an instance and its mobs like the back of your hand helps greatly with your positioning, try tanking them on normal again except with perhaps a PuG with normal geared 70's (normal as in opposed to heroics)

Thunder clap isn't Concecration, but it is one of your primary Aoe tanking tools, spam it at the beginning of the fight and throw in a few cleaves too. This was my problem at first, I tried to devestate everything before the DPS started. Do a couple of thunder claps, a shield slam on your main target to get the DPS rolling, and THEN Devestate the other targets, then return to your main target and throw in the odd thunder clap every other rotation of your tanking buttons.

Positioning wise, you need to watch out for where the polymorph is performed, some mages are irregular and do it real early at some points (usually a good thing) or real late, If its real late to the point where mobs are hitting you in melee already, immediately start stepping back to a previously cleared area to get Aoe tanking without fear of CC breaking.

Another tip, is where possible, after pulling try to get it so you can see all the mobs and where they are...This is why I don't usually like taking Hunters as CC, they pull them off your screen and you have to forever watch health bars and glance back just to check whats going on. Therefore, for a few runs, take almost exclusively 3 reliable CC's. I like to take a mage a rogue and a warlock where possible. (seduce is an awesome CC and banish is like an unbreakable sheep <3)

Lastly, it sounds quite possible its not entirely your problem. A mage pyroblasting what sounds like far too early should be shot multiple times. You are using a class that builds up threat slowly but can reach greater heights than any other tanking class, and your group needs to understand this and start the dps slow. Just state in /p "give me some time to build aggro on these mobs" if CC is lacking to give you time to TC and devestate the other mobs to keep them on you.

Personal preference for me is 2 devestates on each mob before returning to main target as stated above. You may only even need just the one.

Bottom line is, as long as your healer is skilled, and knows to mostly start fights with small heals-its never your fault if a DPS over aggro's, it's their job to stay under your threat, it shouldn't be a race for you when your learning. Later on, you'll get like me where you have a fixed rotation for group pulls and then the threat will easily be enough for the DPS to stay under and do plenty of damage. Shoot-run in/wait-shield slam-tab to nearby target & devestate/tab or click next target and devestate/return to main target and devestate twice and fall into tanking rotation, thunder clapping in between each if need be.

Lastly, don't worry, it comes with practice. Makes sure you inform your group of the desired kill order and perhaps even get a party member to mark instances you are unsure about.

You also have an amazing panic button, Challenging Shout. If things go tits up, press it and make sure you apply devestates/taunt the problem causers...then carry on like nothing happened :P

Hope this helps buddy, once you get past the "oh crap I can't do this" stage its heaven. Your the boss of the group, you go at your speed and if people step out of sync you can scream them down with a voice of righteousness & knowledge...then tell them to DL/pay attention to bloody Omen :P

IMPORTANT NOTE: Make sure you specced for Anger Management [arms] and Focused Rage [prot]. I found many instances I didn't have enough rage for the buttons I wanted to press when I hit 70 :P Secondly they allow for Shield Slam on the main target as your first button after a Blood Rage when pulling.

[niklakov]

Thanks heaps guys! I feel alot better than I did last week. I took it slower this weekend and just got back down to basics. I am running Norms again with pugs and CF/COT Heroics to get some easier practice and have found some ways to improve already.

Some groups have been irritating as pugs can be at times, but they can teach some valuable lessons in the end. That being said i have also had some really enjoyable runs this past weekend.

I need to know these fights inside and out and build the confidence and experience that I need to lead a group heroic without second guessing myself. At the end of the day wipes are not always the tanks fault. If i have a great run with one group and a terrible one with another in the same instance it is silly for me to assume the better group was carrying me and not that the worst group was failing to do their job.

Class selection for a dungeon is very important. I think this is why so many PUG's go badly. I need to know what CC is best for which dungeons and be a bit more selective with my groups.

Also as a tank it is my responsibilty to know the enemy we are fighting, know the environment, be aware of my surroundings, know my players strengths and weaknesses and know the boss fights. With this knowledge and enough practice I will be able to lead with confidence and fairness and quickly identify where to correct a failing approach to a situation.

I really appreciate the advice you have given me and I will practice the rotation suggestions. (And yes I do go for the devestate a bit too early I need to use SS earlier and faster)

I thought perhaps since all of your advice was so helpful I could ask 4 more questions about my current setup???


1. MY GEAR

First of all Thanks Muffin Man I did the 2% Threat chant on my gloves since I have my T4 Gloves and ill be wearing them for a while.

As mentioned before I have 500 Def 138% avoidance (with SB up) 16% Dodge 18% Parry 19% Block 16K Armor and 13k HP unbuffed.

I think should give some back on Dodge and Block and trade it in for Parry, Expertise and Hit Rating. Parry reduces my attack cooldown thus increasing rage/threat and experise and Hit rating reduces does the same by allowing me to hit the target more often. Can you guys check out my toon and make some suggestions?

The World of Warcraft Armory

(the sword equipped maybe my PVP sword as i finished in Halaa last night)

2. MY TALENTS

I find this difficult because I want it all! I feel like I am close to a good prot build but i think 1 more point in heroic strike would give me more threat which I wanted to take from taunt, but pugs make me need taunt and 1 or 2 seconds can be the diff between a wipe sometimes.

Improved Bloodrage I use quite often but do I need 2 points in it?

What I would really like to have is some points in Improved Demoralizing shout for some sweet big boss mitigation. It seems it would be a good way to reduce the melee power of hard hitting heroic trash as well.

Heres my Talent Tree any suggestions would really be appreciated.
The World of Warcraft Armory

3. MUST HAVE MACROS - I read one button rotation macros make you a crappy tank and I understand why this may be. Thats why to this day I am 100% manual with the exception of non combat macros. I want to learn good timing and rotations and make informed (but fast) decisions myself nto with a macro. That being said are there some effective Macros that no Warrior Tank should go into a heroic without?

Stance Dance Macros-
There are some beserker and battle stance talents that perhaps with the right macro I can switch to and use and then switch back to defensive mode? I think i could use such as mocking blow, intercept maybe even overpower?

Intervene Macro-
I hate to sound like a nub but I am not sure how to use this 70 talent properly. Is there a macro that allows this to selct my party member and where could i use this? Seems to me only useful (when properly executed) is with a boss like Priestiess Delrissa or Moroes or other PVP style bosses when trying to protect a healer or something.


4. INTERFACE

I use bartender with Xperl frames and a few other bits like omen etc.
Whilst I am now used to this interface I think it needs to be improved. I have tried organizing it in all different ways but I still feel like it is clunky.

I want all my important buttons in one easily accessible place but I seem to need to use so many! Can anyone maybe show a screenie of their Warrior Tank tool bar layout so I can try and find one that is effective for me? I dont want to need to move the mouse allover my screen to get the job done. (I play on a widescreen at high resoloution which may not help)

Thabks again so much guys. I really appreciate any assistance you can give me on this!

[Slobash]

Nice work mate, you're well on the way to being an uber-tank!

One thing I don't see mentioned (admittedly I skimmed a little so apologies if I just missed it) is keybindings and mouse use. One of the keys to truly successful tanking is your ability to react as fast as you possibly can to any situation that arises. If you're a clicker and use the keyboard for turning this is nearly impossible. If you haven't already I suggest you change some keybindings, start by changing your A and D keys to strafe left and right instead of turning. For turning hold your right mouse button and move your mouse. Don't think about doing it, change the bindings and start using the mouse to turn, throwing yourself in at the deep end is the best way to get used to this.

Next look at your main bar and decide which abilities are commonly used, which are less commonly used and which are used rarely. Assign keys to the common ones that are the easiest to reach, try Q and E to start with. Lesser used ones can either be on harder to reach keys like R or 2 and 3 or you can use a shift combo like shift-Q or shift E. Ones on long cooldowns like shield wall/last stand should be on keys that are difficult to hit accidentally. And finally a reactionary button, I have mine assigned to the tilde key, the ` to the left of the 1. I use this usually for spell reflect but I swap it out for fear break macro, pvp trinket etc, things i'll need to use in a hurry when reacting to something that's happening.

As for macros yep there's easy ones for stance changing but I can't remember off the top of my head (if someone doesn't post one i'll find one when i log on later tonight). The fear break one requires 3 button presses to change to bers stance, pop bers rage and change back to def. I usually hit it fast so that I don't have any delay, in some fights you really need to spam it (archimonde especially).

Intervene i've always used a macro, apparently they changed the mechanic so that you shouldn't have to have one but it never really worked as well as i'd liked it to so I put my macro back up. I use a very simple /assist /intervene /targetlasttarget macro. Very useful when someone pulls aggro, you target them, intervene and re-target the mob all in one press allowing you to taunt and smack em upside the head.

Also depending on what you're running it helps to have macros for things like "change to berserker stance and equip dps weapon/s, second press changes back to def stance and equips sword and board". Not essential but I find them useful in certain encounters.

Targetting macros in encounters that require you to change targets at some point (these need to be changed to suit each encounter).

As a main tank I also have a pulling macro which does a raid warning stating that i'm pulling a named target ( /rw ***Pulling %t ***). For some reason this simple macro gets a lot of praise from people I group with *shrug*

best of luck

[Sunderhorn]

2 quick thoughts

First, be careful with the 'ideal group composition' mentality. This sets off a red flag for me. It can help when learning the ropes, but ultimately you'll learn way more having to tank one extra mob or having less than optimal CC. I'm also probably biased, having seen many people spend hours looking for 'Mage' or 'need Lock' ,when they could have taken even an extra tank or healer and been done with the frikkin run. Since you mentioned PUGs, I can understand the draw, and I'm not saying it's necesarrily a bad thing...I'm just saying don't be too picky P.

Second, I have my Intervene set up so I can Shift click on the character portait to Intervene that person. This might depend on your custom UI elements. I use Grid and Clique.

And don't worry too much about losing aggro to DPS in PUGs...I have to think the number of Puggers who have actually calculated their potential burst damage and response time and watch the meter to maintain that deficit are pretty tiny [read: none]. Most of them play by 'feel', or open up and until they pull aggro and then scale back from there. From the looks of your post, you're doing just fine )

[Kalyptein]

Heres a few things I do that haven't been mentioned that may or may not help you, but I find I need to do these things in multitanking situations (like solo tank karazhan with 1 CC).

Pop zerker rage before starting combat. Can also do this in certain encounters if you find yourself below 25 rage (if using tac mastery) like Moroes when he vanishes, Prince while charging shadow nova (gives you 100 rage after which is great).

Open with charge whenever possible then flick straight to Def stance and thunderclap. Thunderclap before the CC lands is great: it means that should the CC break early, the mob may go for you instead of steam into a squishy.

Have hotkeys for raidmarks. I use shift F1-F4, 2 marks for DPS, 2 marks for CC. I change them mid fight when dealing with many mobs.

Probably start out with heavy thunderclap + cleave use with shield slam + revenge on main target.

If everyone has threat meter, you can work out when you can stop building threat on a target and move on to the other targets. For example: Mob1 has 40K health remaining, you are 30K threat ahead of next DPS so you can move onto Mob2 and build threat and taunt / concussion blow Mob1 if DPS get in danger.

The most useful thing in PUGs is to explain to DPS that because you are multitanking your threat on main target starts out low.

Keybinds

The keybinds I use are:
F1 - Combat stance
F2 - Def stance
F3 - Zerkerstance
1 - Taunt
2 - Heroic Strike
Shift + 2 - Cleave
3 - Devestate
4 - Revenge
5 - Shieldblock
6 - Disarm
Q - Shield Bash
E - Thunderclap
R - Intervene
Shift + R - Concussion blow
T - Demo. shout
A - Shield Slam
D - Spell reflect
F+G : strafe
W+S : back/forwards

I had one addon that made the spell icons flash on screen when the cooldown was up but lost it when I reinstalled everything (not out of choice) and forgot the name.

Gear

I like to fill red sockets with Regal Nightseye (4 dodge/6 sta).

Replacing the gem in your gun with a 8+ hit gem will also help threat generation. Stamina loss is offset by swapping red sockets for the above.

Your biggest upgrades will be the badge belt, legs and gnomeregan autoblocker. I would suggest getting the autoblocker first, it will help threat a lot, then get belt or legs depending on how kind kara is.

Talents

I would drop imp bloodrage for tactical mastery as I feel I gain more rage from stance dancing into zerker rage for more rage generation. Especially good at the start of fights. I would swap one point from Anticipation or Anger Management for Tac. mastery 3/3 but thats just how I like to tank.

UI
http://img247.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wowscrnshot082508141348lz2.jpg


Nothing special here. I have grid in the bottom left which I use to check raids HP. Omen is in top left.

Shield Wall, Last Stand, Pots, Trinkets are there for me to click on (and CDs awwre easy to see there).

The UI scale is a bit messed up at the moment, too lazy to fix it but imagine the skillbars being squashed together at the bottom and the bag bar being smaller.



This is quite a messy post but I hope it helps.

[Juon]

The addon in question is Ghostpulse II.

You will never be able to build threat like a paladin. They start with full mana and you have no rage.Their TPS is also amazing, warlocks and hunters are used to start SoC and Multishot at pull.

This is something all warrior tanks have to live with.

[kolben]

Lots of good advice here. My two cents is to just go tank a lot of runs. Also, and this is kind of mean. You have to let people get run over sometimes so they learn and make your job easier as a result, don't be afraid to let people pay for their mistakes. You'll last longer as a tank before burning out and have lower blood pressure, I promise you.

[protonly]

a mocking blow macro does come in handy. just remember, as i often forget, that mocking blow costs 7 rage...so you need rage.

for intervene i use two macros. one that targets the healer, i adjust it in pugs. the other just targets the target's target (so i target an enemy). i can usually get by tabbing until i find the mob i wanna intervene.

[Mangea]

Intervene was changed so that it no longer requires a macro to work properly. Now, when you target a friendly player or a mob targeting a friendly player, you'll Intervene the player. Test it out!

[niklakov]

Hey Guys, Just wanted to update everyone. Thanks again for all of the help in this thread it has helped immensley. I was unable to login to teh site last couple days but it seems to be fixed now.

i have applied your advice and I have improved quite a bit. I know have my T4 gloves ad Helm set and the Suneater dropped in Heroic mech for me!

I have goosed the Suneater as my avoidance blade and just await the Kings Defender/executioner Threat blade which will give me a nice option when i seem a bit hungry for threat.

I am going to get my Stam a bit higher this week as my avoidance statistics have improved quite a bit and Im getting ready for my first Zul run. The multi tanking sito has improved quite a bit as I am getting faster at stacking devs and taking much more of a leadership roll on our runs.

Its very important to communicate in this game to fix problems early on before they lead to fails. I am also running normal dungeons with pugs to practice my marking abilities with all sorts of class combinations. Marking with various classes in the same dungeons allows you to learn each intstance and how to use the available class in a way that is most advantageous. The normal runs have taken alot of pressure of me because they allow for slip ups a bit more and give you time to actually see what went wrong.

The mouseover dev technique is working well and my A and D keys only side step now. This took a bit of getting used to but it made me a better tank. Thanks all for your help and i will keep you guys informed of my progress. Great Multi-Mob threat article posted on here by the guys on the front Newspage Xav's Generating Threat Guide
Single & Multi Target Threat

here is my toon now if anyone would like to make some suggestions on my stats for Zuls next week. As afforementioned Im going to Stam up a bit this week and I will try and get some more Expertise rating/dodge. The World of Warcraft Armory

Thanks again Guys and Happy Tanking