[Leytur]

Source: protonly I'd personally settle for 1) multiple blessings per paladin and 2) multiple judements per paladin on mobs. Priests can throw multiple buffs on a party, as should pallys. Everyone else can have "multiple things" on mobs (locks with a million dots, wars with sunder/rend/tclap/demo/hamstring/etc), as should pallys. Quite possibly the most retarded design decision ever...limit the "buff class" to only throwing one buff on a person... Edit: Or what they'll probably do...just fill in the rest of the holy talents with 10/10 Improved Salvation. :P

This is a bit silly. Paladins have more buff options than any other class. Priests give out 2-3 buffs. It's not like priests are giving out 5. Warriors can only have one shout active at a time and it's only for their party. Very comparable.

Hunters can only have one sting on a mob at a single time. Locks can have only one curse. I'm not sure what classes you're thinking of but I don't see any fault parallelism between pallies and other classes when it comes to buffs/debuffs.

[Honorshammer]

The issue is most severe with Ret. A major part of Ret's raid utility is maintaining all 3 judgements for the raid, yet he needs two other Paladins to put those other two judgements up for him to maintain. In this way they are the only spec that is dependant on other players to help provide their raid utility.

You could increase Ret utility by allowing the Ret to put all 3 judgemetns over 24 to 30 seconds depending on talents, and then maintain them.

[Worldie]

Might also be worth saying that nowadays if paladins could give every bless to everyone, then most raids will just bring either 1 retri, 1 prot, or 1 ret and 1 prot, and basically completely ignore holy paladins since they are the worst healers at the moment.

Atm i see the blessing/judgement set as a "bandage aid" to guarantee holy paladins a raid spot, honestly.

[Slept]

Source: Honorshammer The issue is most severe with Ret. A major part of Ret's raid utility is maintaining all 3 judgements for the raid, yet he needs two other Paladins to put those other two judgements up for him to maintain. In this way they are the only spec that is dependant on other players to help provide their raid utility. You could increase Ret utility by allowing the Ret to put all 3 judgemetns over 24 to 30 seconds depending on talents, and then maintain them.

I think the issue with ret is more that the other pallys' judgements can get pushed off due to the debuff limit in the time it takes crusader strike to come off cooldown. A simple fix would be to allow any attack from a ret pally to refresh all judgements on the mob.

A holy pally applying wisdom at the start of a fight is not to much to expect, but it does seem unreasonable to expect them to reapply it everytime the debuff limit pushes wisdom off.

[Horacio]

Its interesting how this game evolves.....it wasn't long ago that holy paladins were if not the best healers, certainly considered among the best. World first guilds like Nihlum used alot of them and turned tree druids away. (yes, yes not that Nihlum and thier ilk are the be all/end all authority on such things)

I really cannot think of a way to streamline blessings unless they consolidated them somehow like they claim to be doing with shaman totems. Having a variety of buffs that serve individual classes is pretty powerful but the 'maintenance' is the boogerbear here and we've all been in raids where the RL snapped and said "Dammit, screw the pally buffs we're pulling!"

One thing AoC does with the Conqueror class (mildly similar to pallys) is have broad buffs that are modified by states of the player recieving them. IE, one buff decreases threat on friendly players BUT increases threat on friendly players in defensive stance. Granted, AoC has its own issues in this regard but imagine being able to throw up Salvation and warriors in battle/zerker have reduced threat. Warriors in defensive stance have increased threat. Trees, Boomkins and Cats have reduced threat but bears get increased threat.

Like with the shaman totems and thier proposed changes, you could combine several blessings. Might + Kings = 'Might of Kings" with an added spell damage/bonus healing buff. Wisdom + Salv = 'Wisdom of Salvation with an added threat component for players in a tanking stance (Def stance, bear form, RF active) maybe something for wisdom like rage gen, energy regen or a flat health regen...maybe even increased crit for physical attacks?

Hell, I've never leveled a pally past 20 so I'm talking out of my ass here but just throwing out ideas.

[protonly]

Source: Leytur Hunters can only have one sting on a mob at a single time. Locks can have only one curse. I'm not sure what classes you're thinking of but I don't see any fault parallelism between pallies and other classes when it comes to buffs/debuffs.

I honestly wasn't aware hunters had this limitation. As for locks, usually within 2-3 seconds into a battle they have like a million "things" up on the mob - i know from leveling with one they aren't limited to having only one "thing" on a mob. It just seemed that most classes could put multiple debuffs/buffs on a target and weren't limited to only one. My warrior always keeps rend/tclap/demo shout on a mob - that's 3 things to my pally who just keeps JoC usually (one thing).

I was just speaking about an annoyance of having a zillion buffs/judgements when questing/5-maning that would help me and everyone but being limited to only using one. It's a boring gameplay mechanism.

Holy hasn't changed much in a long time (other than a nerf to illum) while the content has changed. So yeah they're behind and not considered the end-all anymore.

I still insist kings should be baseline :P Just throwing out ideas...I don't know what they *should* do but they need to do a lot

[phaze]

Source: Horacio I really cannot think of a way to streamline blessings unless they consolidated them somehow like they claim to be doing with shaman totems.

A streamlined arrangement:
Might + Wisdom (minimal overlap in classes, so that everyone will want it)
Kings + 'modified Salv', where Salv only reduces threat for non-tanks (Either baseline, or leave the 'Kings' part as a talented improvement)
Sanctuary could be implemented as an Improved Light talent
Sacrifice and Freedom could be merged, since their use-cases seldom overlap, and their cooldowns are very similar
Protection left as-is, since it's a very powerful on-use tool already.

From 9 different Blessings (with 5 being desired as standard raid buffs), to 5 (and 3 for standard buffs). =)

[Alent]

As a former Diablo 2 Paladin, I would like to suggest the following fixes:

Chromatic Resist Aura.
Charge.
Zeal as the 51 prot talent.
Holy Shock as a level 2 trainable skill.
Shield bash as a GCD button mashing move.

[Kazeyonoma]

Holy shit how cool would Zeal be.

I think Zeal should be the 51 ret talent. ZOMG 5 SWINGS GOGO! It'd be like reckoning bombs all over again ^_^

Charge would be sick.

Shield Bash was insane, you just bash someone into the corner and gg.

ZOMG this just dawned on me.

Aoe Hammerdin gogo.

[Joanadark]

Its interesting how this game evolves.....it wasn't long ago that holy paladins were if not the best healers, certainly considered among the best. World first guilds like Nihlum used alot of them and turned tree druids away. (yes, yes not that Nihlum and thier ilk are the be all/end all authority on such things)

I'm thinking about the infamous <Death and Taxes> comment, "Our pallies heal and our Priests dps."

My warrior always keeps rend/tclap/demo shout on a mob - that's 3 things to my pally who just keeps JoC usually (one thing).

?




I personally find complaints about blessings funny.

BAH! In MY DAY... Blessings were 5-minute duration, and single target. You had to rebuff 40 people two, sometimes three times DURING the length of a single encounter!!

I remember Improved Salvation 2/2.

I remember having to have one pally bitch-spec 31 Ret to get Kings!


But I guess I'm just an old fart and don't understand.

[Horacio]

BAH! In MY DAY... Blessings were 5-minute duration, and single target. You had to rebuff 40 people two, sometimes three times DURING the length of a single encounter!! I remember Improved Salvation 2/2. I remember having to have one pally bitch-spec 31 Ret to get Kings! up hill in the snow!!

Fixed, IMO.

[Finelle]

BAH! In MY DAY... Blessings were 5-minute duration, and single target. You had to rebuff 40 people two, sometimes three times DURING the length of a single encounter!! I remember Improved Salvation 2/2. I remember having to have one pally bitch-spec 31 Ret to get Kings! And it was uphill in the snow! BOTH ways!

Moar fixt.

[Norrath]

Rolling a giant boulder.

And our d20s were made of human bones.

[Sardaukarr]

Full text:

"When I was your level, we didn't have any welfare epics at all! We chased Murlocs all day for OUR gear! Chased them through swamps... UPHILL... BOTH WAYS! Killed them with our bare hands! And we were GRATEFUL to have Murlocs to grind!"