[blaxshep]

Since having a 142 hit rate means you are not missing and therefore generating more rage, is there any advantage to gemming or gearing Haste? Does always hitting faster with fast weapons get you anything as a tank, or even DPS?

[Tatt]

Haste is a good stat as long as you are not gimping other stats to get there. Badge fists for fury are a good example, they are itemized well and have haste on them, as opposed to Dragonstrike, which is not a bad weapon but spends all its item budget on the haste proc. As a tank I would avoid haste as it may increase get parry smacked but as dps if it comes normally then no need to avoid it.

[Kamani]

Haste provides a very *mediocre* effect on TPS simply because it only effects white damage. Hit/expertise effect everything. ArP effects everything except innate threat, and so on and so forth. Haste is the *third* least effective stat for threat.

aka Sunwell Chest/Sword suck >< (itemization wise at least, Dragonscale is the best threat weapon in the game...... they would be a good bit better if they had hit/BV/exp)

Edit: Spreadsheet was a bit wrong, haste is better then what I thought previously, but still not as good as the other three threat stats.

[Sanelora]

Haste provides a very minimal effect on TPS simply because it only effects white damage.

it also affects heroic strike swing speed. Haste gets better the more that you get. you most certainly would have heard that the faster the weapon, the cheaper the heroic strikes and this is true with haste. i do not know the haste values off hand but i know that at about 10-20 rating you can lower your attack speed quite significantly. this is why heroism/bloodlust seriously affects your threat when you are not rage starved.

that said, it is definitely not the optimum tanking stat and i dont think it is worth gemming for. Gemming for survivability in your threat set can make it just that much more useful

the sunwell sword is amazing and the chest similarly is amazing too. they would yield significant threat increases combined with heroism/bloodlust.

[Kamani]

Source: Sanelora it also affects heroic strike swing speed. Haste gets better the more that you get. you most certainly would have heard that the faster the weapon, the cheaper the heroic strikes and this is true with haste. i do not know the haste values off hand but i know that at about 10-20 rating you can lower your attack speed quite significantly. this is why heroism/bloodlust seriously affects your threat when you are not rage starved. that said, it is definitely not the optimum tanking stat and i dont think it is worth gemming for. Gemming for survivability in your threat set can make it just that much more useful the sunwell sword is amazing and the chest similarly is amazing too. they would yield significant threat increases combined with heroism/bloodlust.

Wewt! This topic made me fix an error an error on my spreadsheet. For devastate I was using (weapondps+apdps)(hastedattackspeed) for the average attack damage. It should be (weapondps+apdps)(baseattackspeed). Makes haste a much more viable stat.

However, haste is still only better then AP and agility on a point for point basis for threat. Tied with strength. Dragonscale and BP of Agony's Aversion would be alot better if they used BV/Hit/Expertise. Even agility since it provides EH, Avoidance and threat.

And a note, even with Bloodlust, Hit/Expertise would be 15% better then haste.

[Sanelora]

i completely agree kamani!

it IS only better point for point than AP/Agi (even with bloodlust/heroism) and should really only be stacked via gear - most of which is from sunwell

personally, i dont like agi much at all - you need a huge value to actually give any real avoidance (compared to dodge, defense and even parry), the armor that you get from is is literally 2 ac per 1 agi (which isnt TOO bad). for those reasons, it is only really useful for the crit and even then, that isnt fantastic either.

Expertise is the best by far as it is cutting into two parts of the attack table (5% chance to not be dodged or parried is actually a 10% reduction in total boss avoidance) and hence is 2 times as effective on threat than hit. this is only effective up to 23 (as there is no more boss dodge to get rid of). it is arguable that expertise also scales faster than hit. while this is true, it is harder to get than hit, especially after 23 skill so therefore, hit is more viable after 23 expertise.

[Armstrong]

Haste at the moment is in a place similar to where Hit rating was a year ago. It's a good threat stat in its own right, but the fact that it's mostly non-existant on tank gear makes stacking it to useful levels an unrealistic task at best.

Source: Kamani Wewt! This topic made me fix an error an error on my spreadsheet. For devastate I was using (weapondps+apdps)(hastedattackspeed) for the average attack damage. It should be (weapondps+apdps)(baseattackspeed).

Actually Devastate uses normalized AP. "(baseattackspeed)" should be replaced by (1.7) for daggers and (2.4) for all other one-handed weapons.

Source: Sanelora it is arguable that expertise also scales faster than hit. while this is true, it is harder to get than hit, especially after 23 skill so therefore, hit is more viable after 23 expertise.

Nowadays Expertise is just as easy to find on tank gear as Hit rating, except for the fact that you can gem for +Hit and not for Expertise.

Also, after hitting 23 skill, Expertise's effectiveness at increasing the rate of successful attacks is exactly the same as Hit Rating. In addition, reducing parries can constitute a significant reduction of incoming DPS, particularly vs. bosses capable of landing crushing blows. For that reason Expertise is generally considered more valuable than Hit Rating for raid tanking until you reach the hard cap (~57 skill).

Hit Rating on the other hand has the benefit of reducing Taunt resists, making it more beneficial for 5-mans, raid trash and boss fights where Taunt plays an important role.

[Kamani]

Source: Armstrong H Actually Devastate uses normalized AP. "(baseattackspeed)" should be replaced by (1.7) for daggers and (2.4) for all other one-handed weapons.

Sigh...how easy it is to make stupid mistakes.

Thanks for correcting the oversight!

[Xav]

Yes, it is depressing that the sunwell BP + Kalecgos sword are itemized terribly.