[kittikat]

The End - Death & Taxes - Keep in touch.

Just wow...

One of the best guilds in the world, and quite possibly the best in the US...

Will miss you guys.

[Darraxus]

Raiding eats up even the best guilds. Too much drama and turnover.

[Ciderhelm]

Source: Xi's Blog Sunwell is an unmitigated success, but let's be honest here, it's taken us 18months to get back to a Naxx level of difficulty and encounter design and we got a meager 6 bosses, that's pretty pathetic. In any case that's not why you're reading this, is it. So if it wasn't lousy encounter design, shitty loot, cockblocks, etc, than what was it? The most fundamental currency there is in WoW. People. Somewhere along the line people got the idea that they were bigger than the guild. That what they wanted was more important than what was good for the guild. That somehow they deserved respect just for being around.

That sums it up best. Sunwell is just way too late for a lot of guilds.

[Kazeyonoma]

Relax, the people who commited their time to trying to do something amazing, whether it was in game or not deserve to be respected by those who want to give it. You don't need to come here and call them QQ. They did what they did because they wanted to. That doesn't take away from your accomplishments, so don't try to take away from theirs.

R.I.P. DnT

[Leytur]

Let's see. . . no vulgar language. . . no harassment. . . yet my post gets deleted.

You know I haven't donated yet, but censorship certainly isn't the way to getting people's money.

I'll stand by my comments. Xi came off whiny and elitist. And the sorts of people that set world and US first are exactly what I said the first time.

So what's your beef Cider?

[Ciderhelm]

Source: Leytur Let's see. . . no vulgar language. . . no harassment. . . yet my post gets deleted. You know I haven't donated yet, but censorship certainly isn't the way to getting people's money. I'll stand by my comments. Xi came off whiny and elitist. And the sorts of people that set world and US first are exactly what I said the first time. So what's your beef Cider?

Excuse me? Do you have a right to post garbage on my forums? No.

This is what you wrote:

Source: Leytur Awwww. . . . I feel so sorry for the no-life losers who have nothing better to do than raid 40 hours a week. Poor things. . . Blizzard made it so easy for people who actually have lives to get purples. . . so sad. . . RIP

Total and complete garbage that contributed nothing. If you can't see that, stop posting.

[kittikat]

Source: Leytur Let's see. . . no vulgar language. . . no harassment. . . yet my post gets deleted. You know I haven't donated yet, but censorship certainly isn't the way to getting people's money. I'll stand by my comments. Xi came off whiny and elitist. And the sorts of people that set world and US first are exactly what I said the first time. So what's your beef Cider?

The very same type of people that are in DnT populate these forums and contribute information so that the more casual players like yourself can benefit from the experiences without all the numerous trials and errors they went through.

If DnT sounds elitist, then it's due to the fact that they're just that good. Numerous World and US Server Firsts, 2v2 Arena Champions. You can't really get too much better than that.

Many people looked up to and admired DnT.

Many of the same people use these forums.

Your inflammatory remarks do nothing but detract from the community and drive people away, I mean really, what did you expect to happen? These forums aren't a democracy, "Freedom of Speech" doesn't exactly extend to privately owned forums.

And honestly, if you don't want to donate or contribute, then don't. Making idle threats is childish and I'm sure 5-10 others will step up and gladly fill your shoes in the donation bucket.

Source: Leytur You know I haven't donated yet, but censorship certainly isn't the way to getting people's money.

Letting flamebait and instigation run rampant is even worse.

[Klimpen]

I'm kinda sad.

Like I said in shoutbox, DnT's set a standard to Korgath which I think has overall been extremely positive. And I don't think them disbanding will change anything.

[Joeker]

I really hate to see DnT go. I mean the wealth of knowledge that they provided was excellent. It just sucks that it had to happen to them. And Xi didn't come off whiny or elitist he came off like someone who had put in time to accomplish something to only watch it all go away. RIP DnT

[Leytur]

You know what I have come to realize? Tankspot is definitely the best WoW community site out there. One of the main reasons is the lack of stupid flame posts.

So I apologize for the stupid flame post.

I am proud that Tankspot is a place where completely new members can come and ask questions that have been answered 1000 times before without getting flamed. In the future I will try harder to error on the side of cool.

[Norrath]

DnT lost my respect over things posted on their forums a while back, but that had nothing to do with their in-game accomplishments, which were many and numerous. For that reason, and that reason alone, I am sorry to see them disband.

[Ceravantes]

It seems all to common nowadays, its the reason my last guild broke up, the reason my current one has left the game and I am sure DnT will not be the last. The casual atmosphere blizzard has introduced affects the populace or something, cause all i see now are players who expect things handed to them.

[Ciderhelm]

Source: Ringthane That's not entirely what it says, though. From your quote: What did them in was the people, not the design of the dungeon. I get the impression that they would have raided Deadmines with all the bosses replaced by Strawberry Shortcake characters if the people they had with them hadn't turned out to be what they were. You can't blame something subjective (like instance design) for people not wanting to raid with people that just clocked in, got their loot, and went home.

Yes, I agree it's not entirely what it says. However, the lack of need for excellence, and how that allowed a lack of excellence, is a major part of this as they say. I'm not saying anything about instance design; rather, that 18 months since the last serious progression instance is going to enable the issue.

I quoted the second paragraph only because it's so completely true, not because it supported my statement.

[Kerchunk]

Like any other game, the first ones to "finish" it are the ones who will be waiting the longest for new content (be that a sequel, expansion, whatever). It's not feasible or practical to expect Blizzard to release content on a schedule catered to the absolute upper echelon of players who are finishing content 3+ months sooner than even those guilds considered "hardcore." Obviously that doesn't change the reality of guild burnout, but these guilds should be prepared to deal with it somehow.

[ttocs]

It sounds like as people who created/were there for the build up of DnT left, they were replaced by other people who were there for DnT's success.

They let their admission into DnT get to their head, and they had a false sense of entitlement. These people didn't work hard on their own, and when the weather wasn't fair, their attitudes soured to those that they've raided with.

I've seen and heard numerous examples like this in companies, and in other games that I have played. They lose respect for anyone other than themselves when they get whatever they seek, and reject those that help them get there.

With that said, you don't need to raid 40 hours a week to be a sunwell-quality guild. We raid 20 and (with a week break due to a guild trip to vegas), we're 3/6 sunwell.

While I will agree that farming can take a good chunk of time (though people who are good at managing the AH and economy can do it easier/quicker), the better guilds get things done sooner - it's not purely a function of time spent.

[Poolstick]

I gotta stop reading stuff like this. It makes me want to quit the game as well.