[Criss]

As we all know, a confident tank tanks better. Not just because of the positive mindset, but because the people in your raid have to put a lot of faith in you as a tank, and if you're not confident, they're not confident.

With that said, for those who aren't the usual outgoing, powerful personality types, do you struggle with confidence issues? I honestly have to put on a face during raids to make me always appear confident and calm, especially when things go wrong or are difficult, when really, I just want to give up the responsibility and give in to fear like everyone else when things get a little tricky. I've been in three different guilds since BC (one disbanded and I just transferred to another server), and it's so incredibly difficult to remain confident in new raiding environments. I raided for the first time with my new guild, and I spoke quietly on vent when I normally speak clearly and confidently, I was timid in my pulling, I was petrified I'd do something wrong, I was asking stupid questions (I did Vashj for the first time, and even though I knew the strat, I kept asking questions just to be sure)...

Honestly, I've talked to other people who play other classes, and they have all told me confidence in a tank is what makes the difference between a good tank and an amazing tank. I've talked to other tanks about it, and many struggle with it as well, for a whole list of reasons (inexperience, age, gender, and so on).

Er, discuss?

[Sprinks]

It's always a bit intimidating in a new guild because you are under such heavy scrutiny. I'm confident in my tanking ability though, and others have followed suit. Knowledge is power.

[Kazeyonoma]

I think its more of the guild thing than your own personal confidence. meeting new people is intimidating even to veteran's of the game. Familiarize yourself with these guys, and just be strong. I get worried in new raid content with my guild sometimes because I have a tendency to make little but raid wiping mistakes all the time. It's kind of become a joke within the guild "Kaz did it." But when its time for me to MT things I know, there isn't a person in the world who can tell me I'm sub-par to, at least not on vent ;P.

[Groundchuck]

I defintly feel this. It's sort of two-pronged for me since I'm a Main Tank as well as GM, so I'm leading raids and sitting in front of bosses, and pulling...

One thing that helps me a lot is delegating responsibilty. Instead of trying to do eveything, letting other people handle raid invites, pulling or even marking targets really helps me. This way I can focus better and exude more confidence.

I've also learned to closely moniter my speech on vent. I've worked very hard to stay calm and collected even if I have to ask for something repedly. The downside is some of my newer guildies think I'm monotone... better than sounding high-strung and crazy IMO.

Mistakes happen and pullers will wipe raids on new content. It's how you deal with those mistakes that makes you excell. I try and set an example of owning up to mistakes I make and as such my guildies respect me for that and are more willing to own up to their own mistakes. This lets us learn new encounters much quicker.

Regarding joining a new guild: Take your time. I get very turned off to new guildies who come in trying to tell me they know everything. I much prefer people who take the time to sit back and see how the guild does things before they offer tons of suggestions/comments. I'm all for suggestions, but I want them to be grounded in reality first.

Listen to the other tanks in the guild, offer your opinions outside of raids and prove your worth by actions and you should do fine. I love nothing more than a new member completly geeking-out about their class or spec. It shows me that they care.

(kind of got off topic in places, but lots of it works together)

[Ciderhelm]

The TLDR:

That lack of confidence is fairly common among tanks. When I was first tanking in the game (long after I had hit 60), I was invited to Dire Maul by a party from Dawn Eternal. I idolized them, because at the time these were the top raiders on our server, and one of their Officers taught me everything I knew.

The funny thing about me is I never ran instances. Deadmines, Zul'Farrak, Maraudon, and Sunken Temple were about all I had seen for the first six months of the game. I was content to run around with an Arcanite Reaper and swing away at Tarren Mill and Southshore.

By this time, I had learned a lot very quickly. I was running UBRS speed runs... but I'd still never been to Dire Maul save for a 5 minute venture. I didn't know what to do. I was with this party of uber raiders... and I was clueless. I didn't pull fast enough, I got too wary of things I shouldn't have been. The party did fine, but not until they convinced me to stop worrying about every little thing.


But things change.

I came to understand something. If you believe in yourself, if you trust yourself and your motives, and if you are honest with yourself, you can be wrong a thousand times and make a thousand mistakes -- and become a better person for it.

I can't count the number of times I made mistakes along the way. Not just in tanking, but in building a guild, and in raid leading. I can't count the number of times I argued a point I was wrong at -- fully believing I was right. At one point, I argued vehemently against the need for Armor. The first sentence of the first guide reads, paraphrased, "I will not deal in theorycraft."

But I was honest with myself. When I made mistakes, I learned from them. Every single one of them. Mistakes are lessons from a great teacher, waiting to be studied.

I didn't give up on myself. I didn't stop until I reached every single goal I set out to reach.


Confidence is learned. The first step is trusting yourself, trusting your motives, trusting you are ultimately a good person. The second step is working hard to improve yourself. Look at others, find their strengths, and build those strengths into your own style. But never, ever compare yourself to them. Doing so will poison your thinking.

I was never the best Warrior, or even close to it. I know I played in the top 0.1% of players -- but that's a whole lot of players. In a perfect world, I would have used my abilities faster, and at better times, I would have bound more of my abilities, I would have had faster reactions, I would have done a lot of things. But the world isn't perfect.

I got to where I went through hard work -- study, research, theory, planning my gear and tactics for days before each new encounter. There were many Warriors who were smarter than me. There were many guild leaders who were smarter than me. But most of those people never made it to where I went.

I am not a genius. Fortunately, hard work overcomes genius.


In closing, understand that you have to be willing to make the hard pulls and learn from them. You have to be willing to wipe the raid... and the raid has to understand when you do it. Pre-scripting yourself on an encounter-by-encounter basis is not wisdom or skill, it is automation, so do what you can to truly learn the encounters.

[Paruhdox]

I think this is kind of an opinionated thing, I know some tanks that just show up and tank and do great. I know there are tanks though that are confident and take charge and have the ability to be aware of everything and still do an amazing job tanking.

I think if you are a tank and you worry about yourself taking too much dmg or worry about getting killed you need to do 2 things, 1 is ask your self if you can do anything to improve it. By improve I don't mean get gear to drop but things like consumables and stuff like that, alot of people dont invest to playing their class like others. The second thing I think that makes a huge difference is dont worry about it, if you wipe you wipe, the more time you spend thinking about getting hit and almost dieing the more your going to forget about your cooldowns pots and other things.

When I first joined my current guild I already had gear and I had not really played with anyone in it but they were in dire need of a tank and i got thrown into tanking new encounters right off the bat. I didn't worry about wiping the raid, I made sure I understood as much as possible and learned as much as possible from every pull.

In the end it all comes down to the person behind the monitor. Shy people dont make good tanks, you need to be willing to take flak and run in and eat the repair bill and have the will to do it again and again.

[Criss]

Source: Paruhdox In the end it all comes down to the person behind the monitor. Shy people dont make good tanks, you need to be willing to take flak and run in and eat the repair bill and have the will to do it again and again.

That has nothing to do with shyness. I have no problem running in, or eating repair bills. My confidence wavers when I'm doing a particularly tank-dependent fight and while tanking, I'm constantly paranoid I might do something a tiny bit wrong, and I'll wipe everyone. It's funny, because it's one of the reasons I enjoy tanking-- I like the pressure, I like the responsibility. It drives me to go above and beyond, to be more prepared than any other class, to be more informed than any other class. It's just that tiny little doubt in the back of my mind (you know, the voice in your head that won't shut up) that makes everything go downhill.

It also doesn't help that I have no raiding experience in comparison to the guilds I've been raiding with (I somehow have the luck to end up in the best guilds on the server), and there are a lot of things that just come in experience, that you can't learn any other way. I'm always afraid I'll learn one of those things through experience at the wrong time with the wrong people (like my new guild, who has a low tolerance for the tiniest of mistakes, even if they're honest and not stupid mistakes).

It also doesn't help that I'm a female. I don't promote my gender or expect special treatment (nor accept special treatment), but the fact of the matter is, there will always be that idiot who will hear a girl's voice on vent and be stupid. There have been times where I've tried to be serious about something, and people just joke and flirt with me in response. As a tank in a fight, if I say "MOVE LEFT NOW!" I don't want to hear, "On top of you, you mean? *snicker*" I don't want to jump in a vent for a pug heroic and when I speak, some idiot say, "I could listen to your voice all day." It brings my confidence level down a little when I know there are a few people who will not take me seriously because I'm a female. Not because they think females can't play video games, but just because they can't be serious and can't be themselves when in the presence of a girl (albeit not a very girly girl). Which, in the end, is good in a way, I guess, because it only makes me more determined to prove my worth.

Thanks for the story, Cider. As someone who looks up to you, it's definitely motivating.

[nobel]

I can actually sympothize with this. I myself am very confitent person, i own my own business am not afraid to let my thoughts be voiced, and i have always became the MT of guilds. I have been told many times that im about the best tank these people have ran with, which is cool with me i know i can hold my own.

Funny thing is i took a break from pre bc - bc and this actually for some reason put doubt in my head. For the first time in my tanking life i was afraid to get out there and do it, i was scared that people would think that i didn't know what i was doing or they could just get a druid/paladin. Its funny iv tanked twin emps, 4 horse and some other high high end bosses but i was scared to tank these heroics. I couldn't explain it, i just didn't know why i felt like this. The only thing that i think of is that i have always been a raid warrior. Every guild im in the warriors are a very tight group, we talk, chat, joke and we have each other backs. Hearing that heroics where on raid lvl content in a 5 man didn't help my confidance at all, for the first time i felt isolated. At the same time the guild i created was falling apart so i also felt responsiable for that.

Evidently i didn't run any heroics at all or raid for a very long time, i eventually talked to a very old warrior friend who pushed me to do it, that was the turning point for me really. After i got my confidance back it feel like old .

I think it happens to everyone really, even the best of tanks

[Kazeyonoma]

Yeh, my previous guild was lead by some real life friends of mine, but was also a female. She had a tendency to be extremely condescending and also would make you regret making mistakes, which made me feel very inferior to other tanks who I thought were "so good."

Until one day, we decided to run a few heroics, with 2 prot tanks, the MT in our guild, and Myself. We had barely begun gearing up in Kara and thus he was actually barely passing me in my tanking gear. He caused a buncha wipes, and i joking screamed on vent to gosh, let a pro show him how its done. I couldn't have done better, I showed him my macro's I explained to him the importance of SS/revenge and heroic strikes. and surprisingly, he didn't know any of this stuff, he just would do a lot of sunder/devastate spamming. he didn't even understand why Shield Block was so important, and thought 490 defense pushed off crushing blows O_o. Let's just say, whenever I was on for raids, the MT never once, EVER didn't reserve a spot for me to be his OT, because he knew that I knew my shit, even more than I thought I knew it.

Just build up your confidence, everyone has their jittery moments, and as Ciderhelm has stated,we all make mistakes, we all cause wipes, we all fall down. But Confidence isn't gained by never doing this, but by realizing from our mistakes, realizing why we wiped, and getting back up when we fall down. It is this kinda "Knock me down 7 times, get up 8" mentality that shines through to your guild and party/raid. It's not the 3k shield slams, or the 1200 TPS that makes them impressed or respect you, it's being the unrelentless beacon that pushes onward throughout every hardship that encourages the best in everyone else.

*tears*

Edit: and about being a girl. My current guild and prior guild before my last, has a MT female. And a lot of the guys used to give her crap and nearly broke our guild apart, but she tries very hard not to bring her real life emotions (she has issues that some of the guys in teh guild are unsympathetic of) into our guild but being human she can't help it sometimes. But through time she's learned to shrug it off, and there isn't a damned person in the guild now who can badger her without one of the officers or fellow tanks chewin' them out because frankly, she's a damn fine tank, if not the best I've ever met in game.

[Groundchuck]

and about being a girl

Our other MT is a woman and she rocks. You're not alone Criss.

[Narshe]

What Ive just read is what I felt this weekend. We are doing tries at Kael and I know that when we down him we will stop SSC/TK completely and focus tier6 instances. I had a problem, my GM is also one of the tanks for the guild and when we started doing tries to Vashj he surpassed me in gear a lot (now the difference is really tiny). He was in the wipe raids, defining the strategy, taking and learning for every single wipe. He also were in the three kills we had already done. But the problem was: we just use 1 tank in Vashj so I could never been in the fight, just heared their speech on vent and try to imagine how they were doing.
This sunday I told him that I missed the vial for the Hyjal attunement, and that I didnt want to miss the first tries. He didnt invited me that day: "We have just one hour to make the kill, if you fail people is gonna be mad at you because we need another day to kill her" Some other guildies told me the same, I think they prefer to farm her instead of progressing, but their comments make me sit away again in front of SSC waterfall waiting for them to kill her.
They wiped twice, and called raid off.
The next day I asked again for a spot: "We have 4 hours ahead for raid today, its monday so we have already missed 1 day for Kael. Let me be the MT for today". Then guildies argued again that we should not lost time. They asked me if I could tank as good as the MT but this day I was prepared, and confident: "I won't tank as good as him, but I would tank as good as I can"
We killed at second try that day, and some people cheered me for being one of the cleanest shots we have had. I know that if I won't be confident we could have been wiped a lot, and it would have been my fault for sure.

Well, sorry if its have been a lil' messed above, but my english is a bit too far from good xDDD

PS.: I personally don't know any girl with a warrior tank, but some days my GF took my char and she didn't do it too bad (for being her first time with a warrior). She liked it and leveled one, but her priest is what she enjoys the most and eventually returned to it. (Well... its easier too to make partys with tank+healer than with tank+tank xDD)

[Ciderhelm]

Regarding the comments regarding female tanks:

I was inspired by two women to become the tank I did. The first was essentially my teacher, she taught me everything and inspired me. Her name was Miyu from Dawn Eternal. She left the game as I got my start.

The second was Mirarain. She kept insisting I raid. She threatened to leave the guild if we didn't. She encouraged me not to app with Dawn Eternal, and told me to drop it. I'm very thankful I followed her lead. She left the guild shortly after (ironic, but she couldn't keep the raid schedule she'd been asking for!), but I know she was an outstanding tank for the guild she went to.

[Shorty]

Reading your post makes me eternally thankful for my guild. I joined them when they near the beginning of ZG pre-tbc and as a male gnome warrior OT most of them assumed I was male until after a few weeks I joined them on vent. I'll always remember the shock when they heard this female voice on vent and it took some of them a couple of weeks to stop saying "him"; but I've never had any problems with my guildies.

I hope (and trust) that as a tank I am not treated any differently as they would treat a guy; but it is much easier to send hugs to people having a bad day when they know you're a girl and my (female) mage alt definitely gets more hugs from guildies than most characters

The confidence thing is tricky - I'm a shy person in RL and joining my current guild was really tricky. I hardly said much on vent/guild chat at the beginning and was petrified the first time I was asked to MT. Now, several months later, I've MT'ed kara from our first attempt - no doubt causing numerous wipes along the way - but I am still moving forward

[Narshe]

Looking at this forums looks like there is more female tanks than male. ^^

[Ciderhelm]

lol I was just thinking the same thing

[Xepri]

Times I used to feel really unconfident:

1. PvP. My heart just races and I put myself under so much pressure to perform. I've never lost a fight, but have yet to decide if the adrenaline rush from pressuring myself is a good thing or a bad thing.

2. When my party would wipe due to a bad pull, adds, pats, etc. that I hadn't noticed. We're human and we make mistakes.

But everything has it's lesson and it is because of the mistakes and trials that when I do tank, it's with confidence that I can handle when a situation goes a little sour. I've read up on the instances and raids enough to know possible outcomes with different strategies. If something completely different happens, that only adds to my repertoire of knowledge about that particular situation.

Honestly as a tank I do consider myself at least partially a leader, seeing as I have control over when most fights do begin. When people look to me, I don't want them to see a frazzled person who doesn't know what she's doing when something goes amiss. People look to leaders for collectedness and direction. So it's easy for me to stay calm, knowing my role.

edit: Also I totally approve of female tanks. As long as they know what they are doing and don't flip out, cool!

[Paruhdox]

Thats really odd, most of the females i know that play the game love to playing healing classes. It was the same in everquest, im sure you could do a very very interesting case study on why females play mmo's and when they do which class they are more likely to play.... of course on this forum they are most likely to all be warriors.

[Ciderhelm]

Chances are females on this forum will be playing Warriors, yes.

Mostly replying to this to show you the new shoutbox refresh.

[windrage]

Felt the same pressure and i think much of it returns with TBC cause the tanking is so different, the content feels more worked through and demanding then before, no wonder it feels a bit scary

What makes it even more scary is if the guild have a Harsh environment where u get told to go "do something naughty" to yourself if you make a mistake causing a whipe or forgetting pots or whatever it may be...

I've been in that type of guild, and after 2 whipes on high king and a poor pally got mouthed of really bad by some members, he left the guild and i did the same shortly after, i could Never tank for a guild where u get yelled at for making a simple human mistake.

(as it is now they mostly point and laugh and blame it on me, who ever's fault it was... aparently even for stuff that is being done when im offline)

[Xepri]

Hrmm well I never had the desire to be a healer. The thought never even crossed my mind. My first character was a rogue but then I decided that I liked the idea of having a shield and my romantic idea of what a warrior is. I also really like that I'm a whole lot more essential than, say, a mage. And would rather be in the face of the target than healing someone else fighting it. And that I wouldn't have to sit down for mana!!