Shield Ench - Def or Plating?

**Niian** · #1 10-04-2009, 09:43 AM

Niian » Frostmourne-US » WoW Armory Light

Currently I've got +20 defence on my shield, however I farmed the mats and have a Titanium Plating sitting in my bags.
Recently I've noticed people doing a craptonne more threat than me, however that's most likely a gear deficiency than anything. I just got a new belt and weapon, and my sbv has gone from 2124 to 2171 with HS (libram proc).

Would it be more beneficial to keep the defence or go for the plating?

Def: 547
Dodge: 25.50%
Parry: 20.39%
Block: 15.21% (45.21%)

**Mert** · #2 10-04-2009, 07:51 PM

I would personally stick with Defense - the anti-disarm component of the Plating is pretty much wasted budget for most encounters and the increase in Block Value isn't so huge it'll make up a huge increase in your TPS. For a specific threat set then it makes sense but otherwise I'd steer clear for your MT stuff, personally.

I assume when you say people are doing a "craptonne more threat" you're talking about other tanks? If it's your DPS then perhaps gearing for a bit more threat is the way forward, but with your stats I can't see anything but the very best geared DPS being able to rip off you in a standard encounter (not Vezax or Hodir hard, that kind of thing) assuming you're doing a correct 969 etc. Your mileage may vary of course, but as long as you're keeping aggro away from the healers and DPS then your next job should be survival and Defense offers far more of that than the Plating.

**Niian** · #3 10-04-2009, 10:25 PM

We did a 10 man Totc hard mode and one of the hunters was generating a heap of threat. That said his gear is from higher up versions of the instances I've done, and I'm still catching up having been away from the game for so long.

Dary · #4 10-05-2009, 01:03 AM

The difference between plating and defense in incoming DPS is around 4-5 points, however 81 BW provides almost 1% extra threat unbuffed, which allows you to skip armsman enchant on gloves and put old 240 armor (880 if you lucky man have Engineering) or even 18 stam.

MellvarTank · #5 10-05-2009, 09:19 AM

The other thing to consider when you are looking at threat is the Titanium Shield spike, which will help with threat generation.

Esch · #6 10-05-2009, 09:33 AM

Defense generally is better in MT roles, as you're avoiding incoming melee hits entirely. I personally am looking at getting plating on my alt, but I also know that I'm primarily running heroics rather than raiding.

My question is whether or not plating gets talent modifiers. I doubt it, but it would be worth mentioned with Redoubt, along with how SotR gets slightly buffed by increasing BV.

Sotally tober · #7 10-05-2009, 01:51 PM

If you are tanking heroic ToC's go with 18stam.

WarTotem · #8 10-06-2009, 04:21 AM

Source: Esch
My question is whether or not plating gets talent modifiers.

It does. Item enchantments are considered part of the item (hence the OP static AP enchants on Feral Druid weapons)

Zothor · #9 10-06-2009, 07:55 AM

Never compare your threat against the hunters in your guild/party. The hunter class, especially as marks, is one of the highest threat classes in the game, which is why they have the best aggro dump in the game, and the original Misdirect.

A hunter that's pulling aggro isn't doing HIS job. Make sure you're doing yours as well as you can, but don't do anything crazy like use shield plating because a hunter isn't doing his job. The term huntard exists for a reason :P

Hamburglar · #10 10-06-2009, 07:58 AM

If a hunter is pulling aggro, ask him or her why they aren't misdirecting and then give em another chance before kicking them from your raid/guild.

Go with 18 stamina on your shield, imo. Chances are you're in DR for defense rating so the 20 def will not help you as much as you hope.

**Insahnity** · #11 10-06-2009, 08:33 AM

This probably belongs in the HALP forum. Please move us!

Stick with the 20 defense, the plating is only good at lower levels or block sets.

As for fixing things you are looking in the wrong spot. When there is any question about threat, the first place to look is hit rating and expertise, of which you are sorely below (264 hit cap, 26 expertise skill is soft cap). If you improve those threat should not be an issue. If you keep 20 def to shield, you free up other yellow slots for +hit/stam (or +hit) gems, and generally, go with +expertise/stam (or +expertise) in red sockets.

Source: MellvarTank
The other thing to consider when you are looking at threat is the Titanium Shield spike, which will help with threat generation.

This is a paladin thread. Spikes do squat for threat, we work off holy damage. Ret aura and Holy Shield are our "Shield Spikes"

Source: Sotally tober
If you are tanking heroic ToC's go with 18stam.

No. 18 stam is a horrible enchant, useable for magic fights with very small melee components (which are very few in between). Once you have 20 def you can get rid of defense gems and go with +30 stamina gems, which are much better than anything else you can dream up of.

Source: Hamburglar
If a hunter is pulling aggro, ask him or her why they aren't misdirecting and then give em another chance before kicking them from your raid/guild.

While it's nice to have a hunter/rogue help out, in this case the tank needs some cleanup before we resort to that. The hunter is not at fault here.

Go with 18 stamina on your shield, imo. Chances are you're in DR for defense rating so the 20 def will not help you as much as you hope.

You'd be surprised at how little DR really affects things until very high levels of defense (which the OP is nowhere near), and for now stacking def instead of pure avoidance is still a good way to go as long as you know what levels to maintain (see optimal avoidance ratio discussions).

The 18 stam is budgeted for TBC. The 20 Defense is budgeted for WOTLK. For it to be equivalent, you would need a +30 stam shield enchant.

Sotally tober · #12 10-06-2009, 10:24 AM

The three common causes of tank death in ToC are Impale, Ferocious Butt and Freezing Slash. Defense does nearly nothing to save you from each (only 0.04%miss before DR per point of defense). EH will save you. I enchanted defense through Ulduar hard modes as there wasn't such a focus on stacking EH. If you are tanking heroic ToC's (normals are so easy min/maxing doesn't matter) and you are not gearing full out EH, you are doing something wrong (except for Anub add tanking...which you should have a 2nd set for and then enchant defense).

I reread your post and because you are talking about staying above the defense cap, I am going to assume you are not tanking heroic (10 or 25) ToC's. In that case, you're probably right that 20 defense is better. That is why I stated "If you are tanking heroic ToC's go with 18stam." Ymmv.

Zothor · #13 10-06-2009, 01:17 PM

Source: Insahnity
While it's nice to have a hunter/rogue help out, in this case the tank needs some cleanup before we resort to that. The hunter is not at fault here.

While I agreed with most of your post and that the tank needs some tuneup, the hunter is most definitely also at fault. You don't hve to be burning misdirect on cooldown, but you DO need to be aware of your threat level and feigning it off when you get close. Hunter threat is designed around feign.

theholyfx · #14 10-06-2009, 01:31 PM

Source: Insahnity

This is a paladin thread. Spikes do squat for threat, we work off holy damage. Ret aura and Holy Shield are our "Shield Spikes"

56 average damage on block, 56 damage that is not mitigated by armor, 56 damage that can crit and proc your judgement of light/wisdom, makes it decent for AOE threat gen, even for a pally

**Insahnity** · #15 10-06-2009, 05:59 PM

Source: theholyfx
56 average damage on block, 56 damage that is not mitigated by armor, 56 damage that can crit and proc your judgement of light/wisdom, makes it decent for AOE threat gen, even for a pally

56 non holy damage is only 56 threat. Even if you crit for double (which it wont), it's still 112 threat. Healing threat is at 50% (2 heals = 1 threat)

81 damage in SotR is holy damage, multiplied by RF threat modifier...

It's not even close. AoE threat is accomplished with HotR spreading Seal of Vengeance/Blood DoT, Consecrate, and optionally Avenger Shield in some cases, if those aren't enough then there are other issues. Specifically with the OP, it's hit and expertise.

Spikes are for warriors, they get threat modifiers for plain damage, and being unmitigated it's pretty big.

**Insahnity** · #16 10-06-2009, 06:04 PM

Source: Zothor
While I agreed with most of your post and that the tank needs some tuneup, the hunter is most definitely also at fault. You don't hve to be burning misdirect on cooldown, but you DO need to be aware of your threat level and feigning it off when you get close. Hunter threat is designed around feign.

Should the hunter hit MD at every CD? Without a doubt, I would have insisted on it, bad form on the hunter for not noticing omen. MD is a much better tool than FD IMO, as it builds the tanks threat over the hunter AND the rest of the raid. If you FD, all that happens is the next dps gets eaten if there are threat issues. It annoys me to no end to be in a raid with 4-6 hunters and not get any MDs. I'll be glad when multy MDs are allowed, but I suspect Hunters still need to be trained to use it.

But really, a tank should be able to generate enough threat, most especially a tankadin these days.

Zothor · #17 10-07-2009, 08:30 AM

Source: Insahnity
But really, a tank should be able to generate enough threat, most especially a tankadin these days.

Your hunters are sissies then. I raid with some beastly, beastly hunters, and even in almost completely 245 level gear and a full 3v/3c threat spec, they chase me if I don't get misdirects and they don't feign it off. Which is exactly how is SHOULD be, mind you - your best DPS should be 2% behind pulling aggro at all times, as long as they're aware of it.

I never, ever thought I'd say this.... but I actually like most of the hunters I raid with. And as a rule, for 4 years, I've completely hated hunters :P