Warrior Worrying lack of hit rating on tank items in 3.2?

Karlhungus · #1 08-09-2009, 01:33 PM

It seems we've got plenty of expertise on items, but few actually have hit rating. Overall, there's a very worrying lack of hit in T9 content loot. Dreadscale Bracers and Greaves of the Linger Vortex seem to be the only drops from normal content that have hit rating on them. None of the tank weapons that drop in the new raid have hit rating either.

The only Warrior tier piece that has hit on them is the legs.

Now, I don't know about anyone else, but they seem to be throwing expertise at us everywhere this tier, and I'm afraid I'm going to have to start gemming and enchanting for hit, or even sacrificing a stam trinket for a hit one. Think I'll still be gunning for those shoulders from the XT for some time yet.

**Fayre** · #2 08-09-2009, 05:05 PM

Yeah, I noticed that. While I'm glad my Draenai racial will come in handy this tier, it's rather odd to go from Ulduar, with hit rating on everything, to TotC with expertise stacked to the gills. Peculiar itemisation.

The tier legs are a strange piece, honestly. Hit and SBV. Normally you'd think avoid them, but if there are no other pieces with hit around, perhaps not?

Eetabeetay · #3 08-09-2009, 09:05 PM

As far as threat goes, there's no reason you would need hit over expertise until the parry cap. If you have a fight where taunting is very important, it would probably be better to use the +8% glyph instead of gemming for hit.

**Bulk** · #4 08-10-2009, 05:43 AM

I think blizz's thinking is that we shouldn't be tied to a specific teir of gear - it seems the way they're going is they want us to have to think about our gear and not be afraid to use gear from a previous teir if it has the stats we need. I also think they want us to have to gem for something other than straight stamina.

**fuddjupp** · #5 08-10-2009, 03:14 PM

Source: Eetabeetay
As far as threat goes, there's no reason you would need hit over expertise until the parry cap.

This is wrong. Expertise ist superior to hit before dodge cap. After dodge cap, hit cap is the best way to maximize you're threat. Of course more exp (till parry cap) will add more threat, but not as much as dodge cap + hit cap.

**Dresk** · #6 08-10-2009, 03:22 PM

Hit and Exp should be roughly equal in value at that point shouldn't they? Exp to dodge cap is only more powerful than hit because it works twice (so to speak) in removing dodge and parry. Hit and Exp should be roughly equal in value past that point unless there is something I am missing... (sorry about the pun)

Eetabeetay · #7 08-10-2009, 03:31 PM

Source: fuddjupp
This is wrong. Expertise ist superior to hit before dodge cap. After dodge cap, hit cap is the best way to maximize you're threat. Of course more exp (till parry cap) will add more threat, but not as much as dodge cap + hit cap.

We're talking about warriors here, not prot pallies.

Muffin Man · #8 08-10-2009, 05:06 PM

Source: nerfme
Hit and Exp should be roughly equal in value at that point shouldn't they? Exp to dodge cap is only more powerful than hit because it works twice (so to speak) in removing dodge and parry. Hit and Exp should be roughly equal in value past that point unless there is something I am missing... (sorry about the pun)

Roughly equal after the dodge cap, but still a bit different. Hit is a little better because hit effects everything we do, while expertise doesn't. The list is bigger for DKs and Pallies, but there's still a gap for Warriors (off the top of my head there's taunt, demo shout, thunderclap, heroic throw, shield bash).

So really from that list what you're gaining is utility more than dps. So make your judgments accordingly.

marklar · #9 08-10-2009, 06:27 PM

Source: Muffin Man
Roughly equal after the dodge cap, but still a bit different. Hit is a little better because hit effects everything we do, while expertise doesn't. The list is bigger for DKs and Pallies, but there's still a gap for Warriors (off the top of my head there's taunt, demo shout, thunderclap, heroic throw, shield bash).

So really from that list what you're gaining is utility more than dps. So make your judgments accordingly.

however, expertise always an advantage after the dodge cap that hit doesn't - that being fewer boss parries, lessening the chance of a parry gib.

Muffin Man · #10 08-10-2009, 06:29 PM

Source: marklar
however, expertise always an advantage after the dodge cap that hit doesn't - that being fewer boss parries, lessening the chance of a parry gib.

Of course, but the context of this little sub-thread is threat.

XtreO · #11 08-12-2009, 02:37 PM

Kungen, one of the best warriors in game, got about 50 expertise and around 160 hit. I wouldnt let low hit worry you too much

Meythos · #12 08-12-2009, 02:49 PM

Hey, good for Kungen in his new role as OT. Who know's how 3.2 will shake out for Ensidia... maybe a new Paladin MT now that they are on top by a few percentage point?

For the rest of us mere mortals:
The hit cap is 263. The lowest I'd suggest is a 230 rating (7%) and make sure you have a draenai (as alliance) in your group for the 1% heroic pressence buff. This way you don't miss attacks and have a better chance of landing a taunt if someone gets too horny on the dps. Expertise rating at 26 and anything after that is gravy.

Darwar · #13 08-12-2009, 02:52 PM

Source: Muffin Man
Roughly equal after the dodge cap, but still a bit different. Hit is a little better because hit effects everything we do, while expertise doesn't. The list is bigger for DKs and Pallies, but there's still a gap for Warriors (off the top of my head there's taunt, demo shout, thunderclap, heroic throw, shield bash).

So really from that list what you're gaining is utility more than dps. So make your judgments accordingly.

This is why I value Hit more than Expertise. I have from 7.2% to 8.7% Melee Hit depends on the fight but I only have 15 Expertise. To each his own.

With very little tanking gears with Hit rating this patch, I might have to use a Hit trinket.

Credo · #14 09-17-2009, 12:29 AM

This has happened to me recently, got all the decent lv 245 drops from 25man Toc (norm) and suddenly i have lost all my hit rating.
From looking at the loot lists, there are only 3 peices in total that have hit on it. Norm and heroic 10-25 man thats it, period. 3 bits.
I have ench hit to gloves, whacked hit in yelow sockets, still coming up Very short.
I have to use the pyrite infuser + hit food to just get over the cap. its crazy.

I spent the last week walking around with all the fancy new gear on, sitting at 4% hit.. Hated it.. it just plain sucked. I can feel the misses. ive downgraded back to Uld gear with hit rating for day to day tanking. Only use the new stuff when max stam is needed.

Cmon blizz. this is stupid. Hit rating is such a basic required base stat.

**drae** · #15 09-17-2009, 07:38 AM

Hit rating is over rated. The only situations where hit is greater then expertise are those encounters where interrupts as the tank (auriaya, jaraxxus, maybe vezzax) or taunts are critical. Most times this can be covered by a DPS or a glyph. Demoshout is covered by ret pally's now, so I'm not terrified if I can't get a refresh up in one GCD. TC is probably the most painful when running with low hit because of the cooldown.

However Parry Gib is not a huge deal anymore, most bosses where it would be dangerous have had the mechanic suspended.

Personally I stack expertise and keep the taunt glyph in ma bag. I usually only cary ~4-5% hit; but I definitely don't itemize for it.

Toblerone · #16 09-17-2009, 09:15 AM

I'm sitting at 22 hit rating right now. It's not a big deal as made out to be, threats not really an issue, and I do use the Taunt glyph almost full time to minimise resists. I'm much more interested in focusing on surviving in ToGC, rather than hitting.

If you really need the hit for certain fights, swap in some items with it.

Fodi · #17 09-17-2009, 10:09 AM

Maybe the lack of hit rating is why the T9 2-piece bonus reduces taunt CD...

Yes, it's true that not all abilities benefit from expertise. However, think about what most of your hits in a fight are: white, heroic strike, revenge, devastate, shield slam, concussion blow. All of those can be dodged or parried. For those, trading hit for expertise doesn't leave you too much worse off.

On a boss with parry haste, the effective mitigation from expertise makes expertise a must-have IMO. I definitely wouldn't mind trading hit for it unless I were way over-geared for a fight.

Now, if you are being called upon to stun/interrupt, that's another story and you definitely need hit either way.

**wrynn** · #18 09-18-2009, 03:50 PM

My "BiS" maintaining high Hit and Expertise.

Profiler - Wowhead

**Risky** · #19 09-18-2009, 03:54 PM

I went ahead and bought the hit trinket. Allows you to use your BiS gear at the cost of your least favorite EH trinket (in my case, I'm tired of Heart of Iron, and the gear I can equip now makes up for the stam loss)

Muffin Man · #20 09-18-2009, 04:09 PM

Source: Fodi
This means that even above dodge cap, 1% from expertise is worth more than 1% from hit -- and that's not even factoring in the mitigation.

Now, if you are being called upon to stun/interrupt, that's another story and you definitely need hit. But for plain tanking and spanking, expertise is way better IMO.

Unless you are factoring mitigation this is not true. There are no moves that benefit from expertise but not hit. Rather it's the other way around, and as you pointed out they are more utility oriented than dps oriented (TC, demo, taunt, shield bash, heroic throw).