[Giles Deathstalker]

Here is a link to my armory

The World of Warcraft Armory

I've currently wearing 3 pieces of leather and thinking of adding another 2 more. My question(s) are is this bad to be wearing so much leather and which of these items would you use?

Shoulders I have both

Shoulderguards of Opportunity or Treacherous Shoulderpads

Chest I have both

Chestpiece of Suspicion or Heroe's Dreadnaught Battlepate

Wrists Have emblems to purchase either

Wristbands of the Sentinel Huntress or Wristwraps of the Cutthroat

Boots

Death - Inured Sabatons or Boots of Captain Ellis

I was planning on buying both the leather boots (Boots of Captain Ellis) and the leather wrists (Wristwraps of the Cutthroat) but that owuld mean I would be wearingmore leather than plate.

I know my hit is really high, I have Grim Toll and StormEdge,

All the plate I keep running across has more AP, but less or no ArP and the plate has hit which is a completely wasted stat for me atm.

Any and all help would be appreciated

[Kinetix]

Source: Giles Deathstalker Here is a link to my armory The World of Warcraft Armory I've currently wearing 3 pieces of leather and thinking of adding another 2 more. My question(s) are is this bad to be wearing so much leather and which of these items would you use? Shoulders I have both Shoulderguards of Opportunity or Treacherous Shoulderpads Chest I have both Chestpiece of Suspicion or Heroe's Dreadnaught Battlepate Wrists Have emblems to purchase either Wristbands of the Sentinel Huntress or Wristwraps of the Cutthroat Boots Death - Inured Sabatons or Boots of Captain Ellis I was planning on buying both the leather boots (Boots of Captain Ellis) and the leather wrists (Wristwraps of the Cutthroat) but that owuld mean I would be wearingmore leather than plate. I know my hit is really high, I have Grim Toll and StormEdge, All the plate I keep running across has more AP, but less or no ArP and the plate has hit which is a completely wasted stat for me atm. Any and all help would be appreciated

You can wear as much leather as you want. With the next major patch armored to the teeth with grant 3 ap for every 108 armor instead of 180. so take that into consideration.

Shoulders. Get your hands on T7.5 shoulders. theyre very good. Better than those.

Chest. Go with the Deadnaught battleplate. 2 gem slots, and a 2pc bonus combined with the shoulders. If youre not hit capped this piece also helps.
Or go for Tunic of Indulgence off of Grobbulus 25.

Death Inured Sabatons are also better.

Armory is down. Otherwise i'd throw out other suggestions

[Alanium]

I don't know much about Wars and what gear, but wouldn't there end up being better plate pieces out there that help way more?

[Kinetix]

A lot of leather gear is itemized better than plate. Blizzard is changing Armored to the Teeth so we gain more AP from higher armored items, thus forcing us into plate.

[Insahnity]

At the end of the day, warriors wear plate so they can take the damage and still dish out DPS. Leather is designed for rogues and druids, who try to dodge the hell out of everything and pray they don't get hit. Unfortunately, warriors can't do that, for lack of talents and class mechanics.

Consequence - While leather is itemized better (currently), you will not survive hits, and a dead warrior is worse than a 10% less dps than theoretical maximum.

For me, 3 pieces of leather is already too much, consider fixing your existing plate ore new plate items with enchants and gems. You will note that abundant hit comes from Ulduar items, drop Grim Totem for something else (and it may not be ArP that you crave but it will boost your DPS).

[Giles Deathstalker]

Shoulderguards of Opportunity are better than the t 7.5 across the board so if I switch I would switchback to those.

Yes plate will eb much better when 3.2 comes out with that change, but 3.2 is still several months away and by that time my gear will be very different looking advice that will impact here and now not 2 or 3 months down the line.

Yes, wearing leather lowers your survivability but there really are not that many fights that do AOE damage that I run as Arms Warrior so take this out of the thought process.

And I get that the armory is down but all my enchants are correct and I'm gem'd for prett ymuch ArP which is the most important stat for Arms Warriors.

As far as getting rid of Grim Toll what trinket would you suggest I go after then?

[Muffin Man]

Grim Toll is one of the top trinkets for an Arms warrior. I think the only time you wouldn't use it is if you're already close to 100% ArP (or high enough over the softcap that the proc doesn't give you much) or if you wear DMC:Greatness and Mjolnir Runestone.

The plate shoulders you have are superior to the leather ones unless you need the hit. If you don't wear the shoulders. The t7.5 ones are a sidegrade / trivial downgrade in a vacuum. But if you need them to complete the 2 pc bonus then they're quite an upgrade. Although eventually you're aiming for the 4 set T8 bonus so that might not be a real concern.

Wrist really depend on what you need. Expertise capping is still nice even if you're stacking ArP.

Haste is a really bad stat for Arms warriors. I think the T7 chest wins out with all the strength, even if it keeps you over the hit cap. Plus it's got 2 sockets which will beat the extra crit on the leather chest.

Death Inured are really, really well itemized for plate. I'd take them over Captain Ellis'.

I'm a plate purist so I'm biased, but I recognize that lots of leather pieces are better itemized than plate. IMO none of the leather's you listed qualify.

Unsolicited advice: Item Comparison Tool - World of Warcraft
You lose 3 str, 28 crit but gain a meta and a blue socket. That's well worth it. The 150 stamina you lose shows just why plate itemization tends to be so crappy... all those wasted stats.

[Mammut]

Visit elitistjerks.com and download Landsoul's warrior spreadsheet. You can download your gear/spec into the spreadsheet and it will show you what pieces provide a higher amount of dps based on all the known formulas. I would much rather refer to the numbers versus just going off someone's opinion.

[Insahnity]

I'd agree that Grim Toll is pretty hard to beat, I'm only thinking that the hit may be a wasted itemization with your setup leading me to look at that trinket. I'm thinking that Str Nobles deck might work for you.

As far ArP in general, its a pain in the rear to find sometimes. You may have to conciously pick out items with loads of gem slots and ArP it up.

[DeviousOne]

Source: Insahnity At the end of the day, warriors wear plate so they can take the damage and still dish out DPS. Leather is designed for rogues and druids, who try to dodge the hell out of everything and pray they don't get hit. Unfortunately, warriors can't do that, for lack of talents and class mechanics. Consequence - While leather is itemized better (currently), you will not survive hits, and a dead warrior is worse than a 10% less dps than theoretical maximum. For me, 3 pieces of leather is already too much, consider fixing your existing plate ore new plate items with enchants and gems. You will note that abundant hit comes from Ulduar items, drop Grim Totem for something else (and it may not be ArP that you crave but it will boost your DPS).

No. You're wrong, simply on the basis that you think our job is to survive getting hit. It isn't. Leather or plate, neither is going to help you if a raid boss decides to attack you. You're going to get 1 shot. Your job, as a dps warrior, is to dps. You're not an offtank. That's not your job.

[Insahnity]

Source: DeviousOne No. You're wrong, simply on the basis that you think our job is to survive getting hit. It isn't. Leather or plate, neither is going to help you if a raid boss decides to attack you. You're going to get 1 shot. Your job, as a dps warrior, is to dps. You're not an offtank. That's not your job.

Actually, a plate DPS warrior will NOT be 1 shotted. As a healer, I've actually kept up a few plate dps warriors when a tank fell to finish off the last few % of a boss. Yes it takes a bit more effort with a lack of mitigation, but it can and does happen. A leather wearing DPS warrior cannot do that. By the same token, have you never seen a rogue evasion tank a boss before? Makes me wonder how much raiding experience you have, especially in light of your comments on TS shoutbox.

Your "job" is to down the boss as a TEAM, and sometimes it isn't a case of mindless DPS, except for the few gratuitous gimmick fights. There are many situations, especially idiots who recklessly bladestorm at the wrong time, who strip threat, die, and while they have great burst DPS, they fall of the the damage charts through the fight as they take a dirt nap. We call this being a GLASS CANNON (essentially useless).

Wearing plate gives the tank a chance to correct your mistake by reacquring threat. Or taking an ancillary mob off a healer while the tank is busy with the main boss, the grateful healer can hold you up. There are many reasons to shoulder a few hits as a DPS warrior, even while filling the role of max DPS.

Really, why would they have shamans and hunters wearing mail? When does a HUNTER melee? Why do shamans hold shields? Why do resto druids and boomkins have armor multiplier in respective forms? Because stuff happens, even discounting PVP.

[DeviousOne]

The World of Warcraft Armory

Feel free to look at my achievements and tell me what raiding I'm doing. What boss are you talking about? I'm not talking 10mans. I'm talking 25mans, WITH hard modes. On trash, yeah, sure, I've hit sword/shield macro and hit shieldwall if a tank died. Then I promptly died. Because a few hundred-thousand armor won't matter. You're still going to go splat.

The simple truth of the matter is that feral druids and dps dks are far better on the fly tanks than warriors. Your job is a dps warrior is to bring important group buffs, and do as much damage as possible.Survival is important ofcourse, but other than that, it isn't your job to tank. As a team, your healers should be taking care of the tanks, and your tanks should be tanking those mobs. If mobs are beating up on casters/healers, the tanks are doing something wrong. If the tanks are dying, the healers are doing something wrong.

The reason for them wearing mail/leather is 1. archaic class roles from original WoW and 2. class competition for gear and 3. pvp. Pretty much it.

I'm an experienced raider. I don't count trash as an example. I count actual raid bosses. Something like Decon/Ignis etc. Plate v leather makes no difference. You are going to die. If not in one hit than in 2.

[Insahnity]

I'm not sure why you automatically assume plate = tanking. Plate does not make the tank, and neither does the shield, it's only part of it. And while it isn't your raid role, being flexible is valuable. You yourself have admitted that you have tried to tank when things went wrong, and it's too bad it hasn't worked out for you, because it has for me. Sure it is the tank's job to survive, or the healer's job to keep up a tank. But stuff happens, and when you want to down that boss at 1%, I'll do my best to heal that one hope, and it has worked (a few times). And if wearing plate takes the boss 2 shots to get through, that's enough , because I or another healer can land that heal after one hit.

[DeviousOne]

The thing is, I do that on trash. On actual raid bosses, either another tank steps up, we get a battle rez, or we call a wipe. There is no other option. The only fights where tank deaths are expected is Thorim hard mode, near the end, where our tanks go splat, and all our dps goes all out to burn him asap.

The assumption I'm making is because of the one you made, which is that plate allows a dps to tank, which is why they shouldn't use leather, which is a blatantly false assumption.

[Doormat]

Even if you can survive to eek out a kill because you wear plate and not the superior leather gear the chance that it happens is so slim that the advantage of wearing better itemized leather will be the clear choice because you always have the advantage (since you are always dpsing).

[Kazeyonoma]

You wear the piece that best gives you a DPS increase, it doesn't matter what armor type it is, if it is a net gain, then it is a net gain. Arguing that we should have to take plate is not only silly but ignoring the facts. We do NOT tank as dps warriors.

As for the OP, without going into depth about your post, in general, because Arms doesn't hav eimproved berserker stances +20% strength, you can essentially wear as much leather/mail as you want because most of the time, the net gain from the better itemized leather/mail will provide better dps than the minor AP gain from having armor, or having wasted stats like +hit.

[Destruyen]

Source: DeviousOne Leather or plate, neither is going to help you if a raid boss decides to attack you. You're going to get 1 shot. Your job, as a dps warrior, is to dps. You're not an offtank. That's not your job.

yeh i agree you are wrong on this. on hodir in 10 man this week (i usually tank 10s but i'm main spec arms and for this fight i switched and let the offtank tank the boss, lesser geared but i do more dps with my dps set/spec than him) and the tank died at 30%.

naturally being an arms warrior, i was 2nd on threat so the boss turns to me. the healers did an awesome job of responding to the switch and healed me while i was wearing my dps gear (switched to 1hander/shield and def stance after tank died) and kept me up through frozen blows and all that until he died. (wws link: Wow Web Stats)

it still doesnt matter if you wear leather or plate for dps, just saying that you wont always be one shotted by a boss.

and not everyone does 25 hard modes (where yes, if you aren't a tank you will probably be one shot), so please stop comparing your guild with everyone else's.


also take into account that leather items from raids will usually go to a rogue/feral before a dps warrior, for the simple fact that you have a wider range of options and they dont. i choose to stick with plate because its less drama and an easier way to manage loot for the master looter.

[DeviousOne]

There are always exceptions to the rule, but if you're passing on leather/mail because plate helps you tank in that one situation where your tank died, then that's not the smartest way to go about it.

Now, passing on a piece of leather/mail loot because rogues/ferals/enhance/hunters don't have it yet is perfectly legitimate, and I do that all the time as well. That's a more valid reason to pass on leather than the previous one.

[Destruyen]

Source: DeviousOne There are always exceptions to the rule, but if you're passing on leather/mail because plate helps you tank in that one situation where your tank died, then that's not the smartest way to go about it.

i did not say that i pass on leather/mail because plate helps me tank. why would i tank in my dps gear? what happened in my uld10 this week was an example proving what you said was false:

Source: DeviousOne You're going to get 1 shot.

of course its not your job, but sh*t is going to hit the fan at one point, and maybe you'll be able to survive till another tank grabs it or they die.

i dont wear and stick to just plate because i think i can i tank in dps gear. as i said in my previous post, i choose to because it's less drama, even if that means i have to wear poorly itemized plate dps pieces.