[Palizangetsu]

where will the buff to Wall of Terror put it on the list? its going from 63stam to 94stam in 3.1 just in case u didnt know?

[Echo]

It will still lack avoidance compared to hero's surrender, and would only have 10 more stamina. I don't think best in slots will change, besides the wall being the new EH shield.

[Jayson]

Source: Palizangetsu where will the buff to Wall of Terror put it on the list? its going from 63stam to 94stam in 3.1 just in case u didnt know?

I have heard about the change, once it shows up on live I'll get the list edited to reflect the Stamina difference. In case you would like to know now though... ; ] It should look something like this.

EH/T/B/MT - Wall of Terror
AV - Hero's Surrender

Hero's may still win for progression fights (depending on the exact nature of the boss of course), but for general boss tanking, the Wall of Terror will definitely be the preference.

Source: Echo It will still lack avoidance compared to hero's surrender, and would only have 10 more stamina. I don't think best in slots will change, besides the wall being the new EH shield.

The Wall already is best in slot Echo, just for Blocking and Threat only at this point. It will also be moving to BiS for EH to boot. It's a great piece, and the Stamina change only makes it better.

[Lore]

Well, don't forget that the same patch that's buffing the Wall of Terror is also bringing an entire dungeon's worth of new gear. Neither shield will be BIS anymore :P

[Jayson]

Source: Lore Well, don't forget that the same patch that's buffing the Wall of Terror is also bringing an entire dungeon's worth of new gear. Neither shield will be BIS anymore :P

Lol, well said. Thanks for popping in Lore.

[Jayson]

Got the 10man List added in as a second post. Check it out!

Also, with Ulduar coming out... I do keep up on changes with mmo-champion, but I prefer not to edit my listings until the items/changes are on live.

I will be updating the 25man listing first simply because I run 25s primarily and I actually use my own guide for reference... the 10man listing will follow.

[Petrus]

Updating lists with only tentative information is no fun, I agree. Thanks for the acknowledgement - your (updated by then) guide will have similar treatment in the Ulduar-updated version of mine over at MTadin.

I do think you should make a category/listing somehow of pieces that are very well rounded, such as Chestguard of the Exhausted, Greaves of Turbulence, etc. that aren't extremely strong in a single place but are good to get you towards block cap or fill a slot where you want a more balanced piece instead of going to an extreme one way or the other.

[Jayson]

Source: Petrus Updating lists with only tentative information is no fun, I agree. Thanks for the acknowledgement - your (updated by then) guide will have similar treatment in the Ulduar-updated version of mine over at MTadin. I do think you should make a category/listing somehow of pieces that are very well rounded, such as Chestguard of the Exhausted, Greaves of Turbulence, etc. that aren't extremely strong in a single place but are good to get you towards block cap or fill a slot where you want a more balanced piece instead of going to an extreme one way or the other.

In a sense that is what the MT designation is, a piece that I feel is well rounded enough to be worn on the majority of bosses and gemmed with Stam even if it is designed somewhat well for another set. Perhaps I'll add an "Of note" piece listing under each slot.

Thanks for the input.

[Ballador]

Jayson,

I really appreciate your thread here, and I agree with almost everything that you are talking about, but I had one question ...

I noticed that in the weapons section that you don't have anything with Spell Power. Currently, I am using Titansteel Guardian with a +26 Agility Enchant for most fights, as my stats are all well above required mins. I currently sit with over 30K HP unbuffed (Jewelcrafter with 3 +41 Stam Prismatic Gems is GREAT) and over 22% dodge. On the Spell Power side, I have 1157 Bonus Damage unbuffed. When it comes to tanking 25-man Naxx, there is nobody that even comes close to be in threat, even off the initial pull (they don't give me more than 2 or 3 hits, so I make them count!)... Also, I have been noticing that as the MT in my raids, my overall damage for the 25-man raid is always in the top 10 with well over 1700-2000 DPS (sorry, I don't watch my TPS all that often, but I don't watch my threat bars as I don't usually have anyone even close to me).

I was curious what your take on Spell Power for Pally Tanking is. Thanks!

Feel free to check out my armory page ...
The World of Warcraft Armory

[Jayson]

Source: Ballador Jayson, I really appreciate your thread here, and I agree with almost everything that you are talking about, but I had one question ... I noticed that in the weapons section that you don't have anything with Spell Power. Currently, I am using Titansteel Guardian with a +26 Agility Enchant for most fights, as my stats are all well above required mins. I currently sit with over 30K HP unbuffed (Jewelcrafter with 3 +41 Stam Prismatic Gems is GREAT) and over 22% dodge. On the Spell Power side, I have 1157 Bonus Damage unbuffed. When it comes to tanking 25-man Naxx, there is nobody that even comes close to be in threat, even off the initial pull (they don't give me more than 2 or 3 hits, so I make them count!)... Also, I have been noticing that as the MT in my raids, my overall damage for the 25-man raid is always in the top 10 with well over 1700-2000 DPS (sorry, I don't watch my TPS all that often, but I don't watch my threat bars as I don't usually have anyone even close to me). I was curious what your take on Spell Power for Pally Tanking is. Thanks! Feel free to check out my armory page ... The World of Warcraft Armory

Spellpower is a neat stat to play with currently. TBH, I never use a SP weapon, basically because I am just too lazy to switch it in...

Here is the breakdown on SP:

1. SP is not a good threat stat for Paladins point for point.
2. SP weapons have an extremely high SP figure, therefore closing much of the gap.
3. A true tanking or physical DPS weapon's primary threat increase is from the actual DPS number due to Hammer of the Righteous mechanics.
4. SP weapons have extremely low DPS.
5. Consecration (still) scales well with SP. (Wowwiki lists a 95% coefficient)

So here is what happens, on as many as 3-4 mobs you want to stick with a high DPS tanking or DPS weapon due to Hammer damage providing high threat. Once you get to the point where you can't assure that your Hammer is gonna hit all the mobs you are tanking... Switch to a SP weapon to increase Consecration threat. Of course, on single targets, the HotR damage as well as additional SotR damage from the strength on a Tanking weapon is gonna be far more valuable.

The reason for your high DPS in raids is probably your consecrate damage on trash (heck, even without a SP weapon my damage is in the top 8-10 due to trash damage). It also appears you are just starting into 10man content, gratz! My suspicion is that as you all gear up some more, the DPS is going to catch up to you rather quickly where currently simply based on your rotation with any weapon you are staying ahead a good distance.

So, sorry for the long explaination, hopefully you find it useful.

[Ballador]

Jayson,

Thanks for explaining that a little to me, I gave some thought to the higher DPS on the weapon, but thought there was more benefit to the Spell Power. I am going to be looking for a new weapon over the next few hours before we raid 25-Naxx tonight.

http://www.clearbluedragons.com

As you can see, we have cleared Arachnid and Plague Quarters, on 25-man (fairly easily) and we are progressing on Gluth and Gothik (both of whom seem to drop a good tanking weapon). We have full cleared 10-man a couple times, but as we are a casual raiding guild (1 to 2 nights per week), we have been concentrating on 25-man progression. If I happen to grab a different tanking weapon, I will let you know if my tanking experience changes drastically.

Thank you! You are helping a lot of Pally Tanks here, I am positive!!

Ballador
Malygos US (PvE)

[Jayson]

Source: Ballador Jayson, ...Thank you! You are helping a lot of Pally Tanks here, I am positive!! Ballador Malygos US (PvE)

Thanks man, that's really cool. Definitely let me know what you think of your single target threat after you snag a different weapon.

[Halandir]

you beat me to the ten man list, nice

probably has something to do with the fact that I'm on spring break this week lol

[Jayson]

Source: Halandir you beat me to the ten man list, nice probably has something to do with the fact that I'm on spring break this week lol

Yeah... I sat down at my computer and was like "*sigh* I need to do this..." Lol. No, it was alot easier to do as a follow up when compared to the original 25man list.

[Bancherul]

Nice job here, really useful and helpful, thanks for this !
You said at one point that you are lazy this make me to apreciate your work even more and don't worry, all pallies are lazy and nobody should blame us... plate is damn hard so we are not lazy just tired

[Jayson]

Source: Bancherul Nice job here, really useful and helpful, thanks for this ! You said at one point that you are lazy this make me to apreciate your work even more and don't worry, all pallies are lazy and nobody should blame us... plate is damn hard so we are not lazy just tired

Lol, thanks Banch.

I'll start using the "...but plate is heavy!" excuse to explain away all my failures in WoW now ; ]

[rmd83]

np bro, finally downed kel 25 man last night after several attempts of dps beating down the raid from mc or some sort of mishap and got last laugh, turning tide also dropped lucky lock got it i'd say :P. Anyways yeah alot of gear that i need either A. doesn't drop or B. I lose the roll still waiting on a heroes surrender to drop again =\ lol

[rmd83]

Source: Jayson Not a problem : ] I appreciate the compliment. So far it's looking like the Repelling Charge is going to be staying a top (if not THE top) avoidance trinket in game through Ulduar, so keep farmin it! The General's Heart isn't really looking much better than the Valor Medal of the First War at this point, especially with the weak, non-avoidance proc.

nice, so i guess farming naxx 10 man is still worth it then. Those damn abyss crystals will come in handy as well

[Jayson]

Source: rmd83 nice, so i guess farming naxx 10 man is still worth it then. Those damn abyss crystals will come in handy as well

Always nice to get a Crystal/Emblem run going. While the Charge is the biggest one, there are several pieces that are nice out of Naxx10 even if they aren't going be in your main set, so keep it up!

[Selyndia]

Like Block Value pieces, and offspec Ret/Holy gear! And how would we get the 1,000 Emblem of Heroism achievement without farming Naxx 10?!