[Kraul]

Source: Halandir I sympathize with you, as my guild began WotLK as a strictly 10man raiding guild as well--only in the last month or so have we begun running 25mans with a sister guild until we can recruit enough people to run our own 25mans in Ulduar. I don't want to do the 10-man list on this guide, for a number of reasons. I think what i'll do is add to my "to do list" a guide of best in slot 10-man items and put a link to it on the main guide for those who know they will only be running 10mans.

Thanks!

Anyway you can do it would be fine with me. Honestly I wasn't sure it was worth the extra effort for you, but I do understand it would likely complicate the look of this thread to no end.

[tom]

I put together some chardev templates based on the items in this post just as an example of the kind of actual unbuffed stats you'd be looking at. It assumes that you only have one of each piece, and thus items that might serve dual purposes are socketed/enchanted to provide the best all-round coverage.

EH: chardev.org v6 ~ a World of Warcraft character planner
T: chardev.org v6 ~ a World of Warcraft character planner
AV: chardev.org v6 ~ a World of Warcraft character planner

Note that blacksmithing/mining were chosen for professions.

[scal]

What about the Dragon Brood Leguards?

They look better for EH and for AV than T.75 or any of the others.

[tom]

Dragon Brood Legguards do not come out on top in any scenario. The only case you could make for using them is in a threat set where you are already hard capped on expertise.

[Jayson]

Source: tom I put together some chardev templates based on the items in this post just as an example of the kind of actual unbuffed stats you'd be looking at. It assumes that you only have one of each piece, and thus items that might serve dual purposes are socketed/enchanted to provide the best all-round coverage. EH: chardev.org v6 ~ a World of Warcraft character planner T: chardev.org v6 ~ a World of Warcraft character planner AV: chardev.org v6 ~ a World of Warcraft character planner Note that blacksmithing/mining were chosen for professions.

These templates, while nice, aren't really what you would want to wear necessarily. The whole idea here is to get multiple pieces at each slot that are set up/itemized for a different role. Now, a few pieces are going to fit into multiple roles, but not many. Things like Last Laugh (EH/T) and Hero's Surrender (EH/AV).

Basically anything with a gem slot is probably only going to be in 1 of your sets unless it is the only piece you have at that slot at all. So each of those sets would be a bit more min/maxed then your profiles display. Even if it means putting a 2nd best (for a specific role) in a given slot on, you want to have a piece set up specifically for whatever set you plan to wear it in.

[Halandir]

Source: Jayson These templates, while nice, aren't really what you would want to wear necessarily. The whole idea here is to get multiple pieces at each slot that are set up/itemized for a different role. Now, a few pieces are going to fit into multiple roles, but not many. Things like Last Laugh (EH/T) and Hero's Surrender (EH/AV). Basically anything with a gem slot is probably only going to be in 1 of your sets unless it is the only piece you have at that slot at all. So each of those sets would be a bit more min/maxed then your profiles display. Even if it means putting a 2nd best (for a specific role) in a given slot on, you want to have a piece set up specifically for whatever set you plan to wear it in.

^^ this.

The template idea is a good one.

However, I agree with Jayson in that the point of multiple sets is that you gem/enchant each peice of gear to take advantage of the strengths of the peice (the second "gearing principle" that my guide was based on).

In light of that, in hindsight I realize where I have peices of gear listed as EH/AV, for instance, I may need to list an alternate peice of gear for one of those sets to allow for building both sets simultaneously, which obviously can't happen if you're trying to use one peice of gear for two sets (the whole point is you'll gem/enchant differently depending on what set you're going for).

[Lae]

Just posting at lunch, haven't read the whole thread to see if someone else posted this. For shield enchants, you're missing one for EH. I'm currently using the BC stamina enchant, Enchant Shield - Major Stamina - Spell - World of Warcraft

[Halandir]

Source: tom Dragon Brood Legguards do not come out on top in any scenario. The only case you could make for using them is in a threat set where you are already hard capped on expertise.

right on.

Compared to Dragon Brood Legguards:
- Legplates of Sovereignty have 19 more stamina and 43 more armor.
- T7.5 legs have -15 dodge rating, but +45 parry rating and (with 2 16 def gems) +13 defense rating.

[Halandir]

Source: Lae Just posting at lunch, haven't read the whole thread to see if someone else posted this. For shield enchants, you're missing one for EH. I'm currently using the BC stamina enchant, Enchant Shield - Major Stamina - Spell - World of Warcraft

thanks, updated that. Although Vene lists Titanium Plating for EH shield enchant, so i'll probably throw that up there too.

[scal]

Source: Halandir right on. Compared to Dragon Brood Legguards: - Legplates of Sovereignty have 19 more stamina and 43 more armor. - T7.5 legs have -15 dodge rating, but +45 parry rating and (with 2 16 def gems) +13 defense rating.

i'm already 540 defense, though. is it worth gemming defense still as opposed to hit/exp + stam?

[Jivatma]

i'm just curious - a bit of a noob when it comes to how to tell the difference between gear piece A and gear piece B but, why is Slayer of the Lifeless - Item - World of Warcraft in the weapon list and Red Sword of Courage - Item - World of Warcraft not? is the list a "raid only" list? or what?

[tom]

Source: Halandir However, I agree with Jayson in that the point of multiple sets is that you gem/enchant each peice of gear to take advantage of the strengths of the peice (the second "gearing principle" that my guide was based on).

I agree with that as well. Perhaps the description of my templates was a little misleading, as there really aren't that many pieces that were used for two purposes. For the ones that were, it would be of dubious benefit to use something else.

Take Pauldrons of Unnatural Death, for example. Socketed with 8 exp/12 stam they provide the most threat stats, as well as the most stam compared to any other shoulders in the game. Only the T7 shoulders would provide more if socketed with stam, but they are better used for avoidance imo.

[Jayson]

Source: scal i'm already 540 defense, though. is it worth gemming defense still as opposed to hit/exp + stam?

Defense is probably your best avoidance stat (over dodge), assuming you are in epics, due to diminishing returns. What Hal's reply was indicating is that if you are looking for EH pants... Sovereignty have more Stam and more Armor. If you are looking for pants in you AV set, War T7.5 have a huge amount of Parry for a slight Dodge loss while with proper gemming you can have more Def as well.

He was not referencing Threat at all, as your initial comment was that you felt Dragon Brood were better EH and AV than T7.5 or any of the others.

Source: Jivatma i'm just curious - a bit of a noob when it comes to how to tell the difference between gear piece A and gear piece B but, why is Slayer of the Lifeless - Item - World of Warcraft in the weapon list and Red Sword of Courage - Item - World of Warcraft not? is the list a "raid only" list? or what?

Basically, the Red Sword of Courage is a great starter weapon (first epic, lots of Def to hit cap, etc...), but it really fails in comparison to the Slayer. Same DPS, slower speed (which for warriors is generally bad in a threat situation), less avoidance (26 Dodge > 13 Defense unless you have some really skewed stats), and less Strength (hence threat - BV/AP). It's advantages? 1 more Stam and 7 more Hit... Hardly worth it.

Even the Slayer is far far worse than the Last Laugh, but as the 2nd best available to warriors (Broken Promise speed = fail) it is listed.

[abuimak]

how come you list the shield spike higher in threat to the 40Block Value enchant?

Wouldn't extra block value make damage shield hit harder then a shield spike?

[Jayson]

Source: abuimak how come you list the shield spike higher in threat to the 40Block Value enchant? Wouldn't extra block value make damage shield hit harder then a shield spike?

Damage Shield:
Whenever you take damage from or block a melee attack you cause damage equal to 20% of your block value.

40 BV x 1.3 (Shield Mastery) = 52 BV
52 x .2 = 10.4

That's 10.4 additional damage per Damage Shield Proc (yay for not rounding) compared to 45 - 67 additional damage per block. Of course, 40 BV will help your SSs a small amount, but that is only on 1 of probably many targets. Correct me if I am missing somethere here warriors.

Hal, I tend to reply to questions on threads I am watching since I am just sitting here at work all day... So... forgive me for fielding alot of yours heh.

[Rime]

As was noted in Veneratio's thread, damage shield is unaffected by armor where shield slam is. In addition, as mentioned, in a multi-mob situation the spike's value scales much more quickly than a plating would.

[tom]

For belts I think Ancient Aligned Girdle comes out on top for pure AV, despite DRs on dodge.

[Venekor]

Halandir,

what are your thoughts on the Seal of Pantheon trinket?

The current EH list requires a select profession. I was wondering what would be the Best in Slot pair that doesn't require a profession.

EH - Essence of the Gossamer & Indestructible Alchemist's Stone (Jewelcrafting Trinkets: Figurine - Monarch Crab and Figurine - Ruby Hare with 24 stam gems, both JC trinkets have potential to equal the Essence of the Gossamer in EH)

- Ven

[Muffin Man]

I don't think there are any lvl 80 Stamina trinkets outside Gossamer and profession ones.

So I would guess the Commendation? Or maybe Defender's Code - Item - World of Warcraft should be the other half.

[Rime]

Defender's code would indeed be the second choice. EH is not just stamina, it is trying for armor wherever we can get it as well (necks, cloaks, rings, trinkets, enchants).