[Kazeyonoma]

I'm gonna go and venture that Darksend is at least as equally "geared" as you, so if he says his swipes crit for 1400 I don't believe you'll be swiping for 3k...

[Draks]

Mrcx -

There's no reason you have to choose between Maul and Swipe unless you're rage starved. Swipe uses the GCD, Maul does not.

Also, I find it's worth it to at least stick a single lacerate stack on single/small group trash for the 20% bonus damage to Maul from Rend and Tear.

[Astemus]

Great video, though it could use more dancing night elves, imo.

On the subject of maul, I have had it macro'd with mangle only for a while now, and while I was originally a warrior tank and used HS on more than just one ability to maximize my threat, I haven't found a need on my druid. Also, there are very few times when I am really actually rage starved, and if I am, I just carefully use my mangle/maul button while making sure lacerate doesn't fall off. If i am in a situation where I am rage starved and need to do as much dps as possible, Icehowl's stun was an example given, then I hit enrage and go to town. Rarely am I rage starved longer than a mangle/FFF/lacerate/swipe rotation. On the few times this actually does happen, it's not a big deal overall, and the convenience that not having to use a separate button for maul overshadows it for me personally. YMMV of course.

[Kelthor]

Source: Kazeyonoma I'm gonna go and venture that Darksend is at least as equally "geared" as you, so if he says his swipes crit for 1400 I don't believe you'll be swiping for 3k...

I would have to agree here. His average item level looks to be about 15 levels higher than yours and his weapon alone is probably giving him more than 1k more AP than you not counting the rest of his gear.

[Ferter]

Source: Mrcx U wont use Lacerate as much as u do: Only on bosses. NOT on mobs. (Like i said i dont use Lacerate as much as u do, so i dont have Primal gore, i rather have Infected wounds)

Lacerate crits trigger Savage Defence. Well worth 1 talent point

Source: Mrcx U dont use swipe on single targets:Thats useless.

... O.O

[Mrcx]

Source: Draks Mrcx - There's no reason you have to choose between Maul and Swipe unless you're rage starved. Swipe uses the GCD, Maul does not. Also, I find it's worth it to at least stick a single lacerate stack on single/small group trash for the 20% bonus damage to Maul from Rend and Tear.

Thats where i got Infected wounds....

[Mrcx]

Source: Ferter Lacerate crits trigger Savage Defence. Well worth 1 talent point ... O.O

I got 47% crit chance. I got an addon which shows me everything and my savage defense procs as an idiot.

[Mrcx]

Source: Kelthor I would have to agree here. His average item level looks to be about 15 levels higher than yours and his weapon alone is probably giving him more than 1k more AP than you not counting the rest of his gear.

Well i never wrote 3k swipe, that will come somewhere near tier 11 or so.
But i wont lie if i got some crits towards 1900 but that could end up with raid buffs. Im not watching my threat meter in 5 man HC because they dont get time to make aggro enough.

[Kazeyonoma]

You were a bit ..... ambiguous with your statement of "swipe 3k (all targets)".

That's where people are saying 3k swipes won't happen, sure if you hit 3 targets or more you'll be hitting for 3k damage overall, but you should say 3 x 1.1k instead for better mathcraft.

[Draks]

Source: Mrcx Thats where i got Infected wounds....

Infected Wounds is a disease, not a bleed. It won't trigger Rend and Tear. At least thats what I assume you were getting at.

[MonkH]

good video, my m8 levelled druid couple months ago and i suggested he try out bear tanking at 80 and i tried to advise him on bear tanking then realised bears were quite different to other tanks. i'm sure to point him in this direction!

[sollaires]

Couple tips I like that I try to use as often as possible.

My pull rotation looks like this (I don't have imp mangle):

FFF if at range
Mangle/Maul macro + Taunt (After a few melee got gibbed on an early parry, I always taunt now to make sure I get focused for at least a few seconds)
Demo Roar
Lacerate
Mangle (just came off from cooldown, so use it before Berserking)
Berserk
Mangle Spam (add a lacerate when the single stack dips low)

This rotation allows my DPS to go full bore as soon as the fight starts and they rarely have to worry about threat. I don't worry about stacking lacerate up until Berserk is done since Mangle is better for threat and only requires the one lacerate stack to get the extra bleed damage from Rend and Tear.

After that, I do the same the Mangle, FFF, 3, 4 rotation as in the video and I rarely have threat issues in non-gimmick fights (Vezax and Hodir can still be a pain).

[thelirka]

Would be nic to see somethin like for other classes (warlocks especially)

[Ferim]

"/castsequence reset=3/target Mangle, FF, lacerate"

what will this do?

[Silmarieni]

Please make a Paladin rotation guide video for future palatanks ;-)

Thanks in advance.

[Mancer]

Source: Darksend THIS THIS THIS and this again. I have toyed around with this idea for a while but never got a spec I actually liked with it.

I run a 1/3 Imp. Mangle spec on my Bear, I didn't set out to improve my rotation/threat with the 1 point in mangle originally, but after a while I realised how well it fits with the Bear rotation. My rotation when engaging a boss is FFF on pull (when possible), Mangle, filler, filler, filler, Mangle, Berserk, Mangle spam. Everything fits very nicely, mangle comes off CD just as I'm ready to hit it again. Filler can be whatever is required out of FFF/Demo/Lacerate/Swipe.

My Current spec

I take 3/3 IW and 2/2 Brutal Impact because 30 sec interrupt is worth its weight in gold, but for a full blown, must have max-threat spec those 5 points could easily go into Naturalist for an extra 10% damage/threat. The rest is pretty standard Bear stuff, no KotJ however as I don't normally use Enrage during pulls - another option for the IW talents if the raid has TC covered already, but I think 3/5 Naturalist would win here, 6% damage constantly vs 15% for 10 sec every 60 sec and some CD stacking with Berserk.

It would be interesting to see the numbers on the comparable rotations for 1/3 and 3/3 Imp. Mangle to see if the extra mangles in a 3/3 spec make up for the 0.5 sec dead time. Of course 1/3 has the benefit of 2 spare talent points to be used elsewhere, for utility or extra damage/threat to trade off against the lower number of Mangles.

--Mancer

[felhoof]

THIS THIS THIS and this again. I have toyed around with this idea for a while but never got a spec I actually liked with it.

The problem with 1/3 imp mangle is that it doesn't really give you anything special. You still have to wait 6 seconds for FF, and you're either waiting on the mangle, waiting on the FF, or putting in lacerate/swipe/roar in there and completely removing the point of the talent point in the first place.

One quibble, darksend - if you are the only person who can apply a bleed for whatever reason or you think that bleeds won't be up particularly quickly on your target, it's much, much better to open with demo roar pull, FF as they get there (or charge in), then mangle and lacerate. The reason being is that while FF is higher threat than lacerate, having a bleed up means your first maul will hit for 20% more, and that's far more threat than what FF can do by itself. This gives a much better opening threat salvo and can give some nice burst.

I also often simply mangle, laceratex3, then mangle then hit berserk. The opening is usually when I need the best threat boost, and the sooner I can get the berserk in, the better.

Finally, one reason that the weapon is so much better of a boost - other than it being a huge gain in AP (which isn't actually that great for threat as a stat; 200 AP gains approx 70 TPS, as an example) - with predatory strikes, bears gain an additional 20% AP of the weapon. That makes FAP that much better than AP overall, and makes it an excellent source. Still, the best sources of threat are expertise (before the dodge cap), hit and then expertise.

[felhoof]

I run a 1/3 Imp. Mangle spec on my Bear, I didn't set out to improve my rotation/threat with the 1 point in mangle originally, but after a while I realised how well it fits with the Bear rotation. My rotation when engaging a boss is FFF on pull (when possible), Mangle, filler, filler, filler, Mangle, Berserk, Mangle spam. Everything fits very nicely, mangle comes off CD just as I'm ready to hit it again. Filler can be whatever is required out of FFF/Demo/Lacerate/Swipe.

This only works if you're delaying FF or waiting on it to come off of CD. If you're waiting on it, you're doing the same rotation as you would without it. If you're delaying it, you're costing yourself threat.

Here's a sample rotation with 1/3 mangle:

0.0: Mangle
1.5: FF
2.5: lacerate
4.0: lacerate
5.5: mangle

Here's the problem: what do you do here? FF won't be up for another .5 seconds (at 7.5 seconds). You can do something like:

7.0: lacerate
8.5: FF
9.5: lacerate
11.0: mangle

Except now you've waited an additional 1 second on FF, which means over time you're losing FFs and have a very complex rotation.

The next parts are even more annoying:
12.5: filler
14.0: filler (again, can't do FF until 14.5)
15.5: FF
16.5: mangle
18.0: filler
19.5: filler (again, not FF)
21.0: filler (still no FF)
22.5: mangle (at this point you've wasted that extra point in mangle - and you're back to the original normal rotation)

This gives you - if you're perfect - one extra mangle every 66 seconds. At the cost of 2 faerie fires.

[TylBronto]

Source: felhoof This gives you - if you're perfect - one extra mangle every 66 seconds. At the cost of 2 faerie fires.

And an additional filler every 18s, so that's about 3-4 additional fillers.

[Vrachara]

Thank you for the guide mate, I have to admit, even after tanking throughout all WotLK (and a fair share of TBC), I had my doubts about my rotation.

I'm using a 3/3 Improved Mangle and I noticed recently a few DPS catching up to me (not much though, outside Vezax HM/Hodir I have no issues and even there it's fine as long as people know how to use their threat drops).

I was wondering about that half a second. I'd always end up having both Mangle and FFF on CD but one/both just coming off, but usually my first thought was "better Lacerate/Swipe than wait around". Recently I doubted that view and started waiting but being uncertain, I didn't get into it fully - so thank you very much for confirming it for me

Btw, a really small note, sorry if you did mention it. In case both FFF and Mangle come off cooldown at the same time, I'd suggest to hit FFF first. Mangle does barely more threat (21 threat difference according to Rawr) and because of the faster global cooldown thing, it means Mangle is coming faster after the FFF than FFF would after a Mangle.