[Finelle]

Source: Liar Isn't this a bit hypocritical though? The orc tank doesn't exactly look like your average human with his huge build either. What I am trying to say is that the artist was atleast consistent when making everyone sexier. Cliche, sure. But I haven't seen anyone saying that the orc makes others uncomfortable and compelled to go train in the gym (which I guess would be the analogy to your breast enlargement ad).

Heh, the build is at least consistent with the role of the orc, the equivalent would be a <snip>

[Legionodeath]

Shes hot! :-)

-LoD

[Chris610]

OK couple of things to everyone viewing this site at work. There is a very simple solution. Do not maximize your internet browser at work, when you come to Tankspot just resize your browser to fit in only the forums. I work with a bunch of women who I could see take offense to this, so you know what I'm going to do tomorrow while at work, resize my browser window so it doesn't show, it is as simple as that, i still wont miss anything on Tankspot and I can still view the wonderful artwork at home, I even set it as my background. So guys that are against this, please think of other people and do the simple thing and just resize your window, its is as easy as that. Plus if your so concerned one thing to remember you are at work, you supposed to be working, not browsing the internet.

Please Cider do not take this down I absolutely love the artwork, as do many other people and there is a easy solution for those who don't.

[Zenwolf]

Personally, I feel that the best theme was the one with the fan art warrior holding sword and shield, looking down at the remains of the battlefield. Epic.

[Irulan]

I just got to respond to the people that use "You shouldn't be viewing videogame sites at work." as an argument. Really? I'm sure you're all 100% efficient and productive at work. In the real world however, there are times when I simply don't have anything to do, because I'm waiting on stuff. And also, there are things called breaks, which you should take regularly, because it improves productivity.

[Shortypop]

I find my feelings towards the new artwork ambivalent - I admire the skill but I won't be having TS as full screen at work or at home (although I rarely do now anyway). Like Roana I have no doubt that if it had been the background when I first "fell over" tankspot I would have been put off from coming back (however shallow that may seem, it was a nice change to visit a "gamer" website and not have mostly naked "hypersexualised" females on the frontpage) and even now I remain slightly disapointed. For me TS is a place of that embodies two things: respect and a challenge. Respect towards players of all ages, genders and experience; where newbies are not afraid to ask "stupid" questions and where the more experienced players still answer the same questions for the umpteenth time politely. TS for me is a place of a "challenge" where we are constantly challenged to be better tanks/players and better individuals.

Under these two contexts it would have been nice to see a background that challenged the normal sci-fi female stereotype: it is possible, although very few people attempt, it to show a sexy female character wearing more than a bikini and shoulderpads and while remaining sexy someone you actually feel could stand shoulder-to-shoulder with plate covered male adventurers.

[Roana]

Source: Liar Isn't this a bit hypocritical though? The orc tank doesn't exactly look like your average human with his huge build either. What I am trying to say is that the artist was atleast consistent when making everyone sexier. Cliche, sure. But I haven't seen anyone saying that the orc makes others uncomfortable and compelled to go train in the gym (which I guess would be the analogy to your breast enlargement ad).

First of all, it's not about attractiveness (pretty much every Hollywood movie has good-looking lead actors, regardless of its quality), it's about roles and perception. The orc looks like the consummate tank, with practical attire that, along with his posture, tells a story of a strong character that a male viewer can easily identify it.

The depiction of the female blood elf, conversely, is not targeted at female viewers (unless they are lesbian or bisexual). She's not someone made for female viewers to identify with. Her clothes (or lack thereof) and overemphasized secondary sexual characteristics, her pose, they all say "object", not "agent".

Contrast this picture, if you will, with Larry Elmore's picture of Sturm Brightblade's Death in the Dragonlance story (amusingly enough, Elmore contributed heavily to making cheesecake art as predominant as it is today, but he got this one right). You have a male and a female character, too, both of them attractive, but both of them are depicted in a way totally appropriate for the story -- the Knight of Solamnia, who just died a heroic death, and the battleworn elven woman who is defiantly guarding his body. The Dragonlance novels are not exactly high art, but the story Elmore's picture tells is still much more compelling than that of the tough orc and the sensual blood elf.

Secondly, the term you're looking for is "applying a double standard", not "hypocrisy", which is something entirely different.

[Bukefal]

Source: Mhoram You must not work at a place that's too strict about things like this. Some do, and you should respect their views, as you expect them to respect yours. The larger question is why those people would be browsing a video game site at work to begin with. My two cents? I like the old art better. I wish there were some way to choose which artwork was displayed (like some forums have different themes and such).

No offense but, if you work at such place, you shouldn't be browsing any game sites. You seem to be working at place where you are allowed to open sites only work-related.

[Mhoram]

Source: Bukefal No offense but, if you work at such place, you shouldn't be browsing any game sites. You seem to be working at place where you are allowed to open sites only work-related.

Uh...

Yeah.

You have firmly grasped my point. Way to go.

[Mhoram]

Source: Irulan I just got to respond to the people that use "You shouldn't be viewing videogame sites at work." as an argument. Really? I'm sure you're all 100% efficient and productive at work. In the real world however, there are times when I simply don't have anything to do, because I'm waiting on stuff. And also, there are things called breaks, which you should take regularly, because it improves productivity.

My wife had to sign a document at her job. If she surfs the web for personal reasons, she gets reprimanded, up to the point where she gets fired.

It's not about how efficient we are. Really. It's about what peoples' jobs allow and don't allow. Really. It doesn't matter if it's videogame sites, or browsing personal email, or hitting up ebay, or dating sites. Really.

And honestly, if all you're doing on your breaks is sitting around browsing videogame sites, instead of getting up from your desk and actually taking a break, you need a hobby. Really.

Really.

[Aldragoriad]

I don't know what disturbs me more, the fact that people are bothered by the art, the fact that idiots are complaining about the fact that they might get in trouble for it at work, or the fact that people are trying to break it down, dissect it, and analyze what it means.

[Roana]

Source: Aldragoriad I don't know what disturbs me more, the fact that people are bothered by the art, the fact that idiots are complaining about the fact that they might get in trouble for it at work, or the fact that people are trying to break it down, dissect it, and analyze what it means.

Well, to disturb you even more, I'm not only critical of the artwork, but I also appreciate the effort which Ciderhelm and Co. have invested to promote the site (I just think they could have gotten better value for their money).

In short, this is simply a somewhat controversial issue. Expect debate and disagreement as a consequence.

[Leytur]

Re: Cider's post on page 2.

First of all, I never got to see the version with all 3 characters. I'll search for a link to just the image file, but in case I don't find it could you provide a link?

Second of all, I think you've CYA as well as you can. Don't think we're going to solve male hegemony on a wow fan site. But people should be aware that it's an issue. We are in the 21st century after all.

Third, this is in fact TAMER than in game load screen art you would see. Sad but true!

Oh yea, fourth. . . yes, the belf is a caster. But I have yet to see a geared out caster showing midriff and wearing only a belt. lol. I'm afraid it would cause many more wipes than it should. :P

[Leytur]

Source: Lizana http://fc09.deviantart.com/fs49/f/20...azazel1944.jpg Is the full image. Nothing like the KT axe except basic blade shape

Oh man that was a let down. I can see why those who saw the original background found it so. . . offensive may be too harsh but you know what I mean. It's just too stereotypical. Cider did a good job making the sexism a bit less obvious in his spacing for the background.

[Leytur]

Source: Squirrelnut I would like to offer some thoughts with regard to those finding issue with the new background and calling it 'hypersexualized' or an 'objectification of the female form'. The professionalism of this artwork is undeniable providing a glimpse of both a powerful, armored tank (plus marmot) and a mystic, adept caster combining both extremes of the game into a masterful work of art.

No one is denying how well done it is. Just the underlying stereotypes it purveys. And honestly everything has been said that needs to be said so I won't beat a dead horse. HOWEVER. . .

What if the belf was a dude? And he was showing his abs. .. and was wearing a chastity belt. . . exact armor as this lady. Would you view him simply as a mystic adept caster? lawl. I think not. We would probably call him what every mal. . . . oh wait I'm going into stereotypes myself there! Bad boy.

[Jalousie]

I've already made my feelings clear about this elsewhere, but I just want to reiterate what Leytur said. Cider's done a good job in re-shaping the original artwork and diffusing some of that really aggressive fantasy stereotype and he should be congratulated for listening to the people who raised issues and acting accordingly. When compared with the original piece, I think a reasonable compromise has been reached.

Good to see TankSpot finally has its own, custom-made, Hordie background

[Liar]

Source: Roana First of all, it's not about attractiveness (pretty much every Hollywood movie has good-looking lead actors, regardless of its quality), it's about roles and perception. The orc looks like the consummate tank, with practical attire that, along with his posture, tells a story of a strong character that a male viewer can easily identify it.

Yeah, I kinda get what you are saying, I just don't view the orc and BE like that. I don't identify with either and just appreciate them for what they are: (sexed up) and really awesome drawn pictures of a Warrior tank and a Paladin healer, and that's where it ends for me. I don't need to be able to identify with something to appreciate it, it's just fluff to me. I don't have issues playing male or female characters in WoW either, they are just aesthetics - not some sort of avatar of myself.

PS: Noone else noticed that the female is like 2 tiers (Warrior T7 vs what I think is Paladin T5) behind the tank and is most likely getting carried through heroics? <_<

[klor]

I'm, (and I am going to be forced to give up my Horde Card for this..) sadly disappointed that the Nelf got cut out of the picture. The detail on her was amazing and was my favorite out of all three of the characters. The armor detail was top notch (from the midrift up of course seeing as how thats how ALL the hunter armor is on the Belfs/Nelfs). Other than that, the images are no different than any wow image, as most have said, probably more appropriate than many of the female wow images. Some of you act like you're surprised the female toons of a fantasy setting are drawn like they are protrayed by the creators of said fantasy setting? I really don't understand the argument beyond the "I cant look at it from work or home". To that I add, like many, that you don't have to view it at full screen. It gives you the option to hide any and all of the background. As for Roanas argument of it turning you away.. I don't see you moving away from WoW because of the art work on there. Like I have stated, it is, unfortunately, in the very game you play. That is the fantasy setting. Trying to take offense to something you arguably already place yourself in a position to encounter just doesn't work :-/

And as for the breast enhancement comment... sure, if you try to compare yourself to every female fantasy model drawn, it might make you feel like you need to match said drawing. However, most of us are adults and know that it is just a drawing. Very few people look like what is portrayed in drawings. That's why it's a fantasy. It's NOT real.

[Bukefal]

Source: Jalousie I've already made my feelings clear about this elsewhere, but I just want to reiterate what Leytur said. Cider's done a good job in re-shaping the original artwork and diffusing some of that really aggressive fantasy stereotype and he should be congratulated for listening to the people who raised issues and acting accordingly. When compared with the original piece, I think a reasonable compromise has been reached. Good to see TankSpot finally has its own, custom-made, Hordie background

/agreed

Long live the new background!

[Bran]

I saw someone a few pages back mention the use of different themes and letting the user choose, a lot of forum software allows this. I don't see it here at first glance, but that seems to be the optimal solution. Two or more themes which only differ in the background image.

That said, I don't know what reaction Cider expected, but I think it would have been naive not to expect some controversy. I think some folks on both sides are getting a little too worked up over it though.