General Ghostcrawler & More Cross-Tanking Discussion at TS

**Ciderhelm** · #1 10-14-2008, 12:40 PM

Patch 3.0 Tuesday Preparedness Guides: Paladin / Warrior

Here ya go:

Source: Dr. Ghostcrawler, Few-legged Feedback Crab
I do follow threads on EJ, Tankspot, Maintankadin and other quality discussions across the community (and my apologies if I am leaving anyone out).

I understand the concerns, but we aren't convinced one of the tank classes is categorically "the worst" even though all 4 at times swear up and down that they're the ones who won't get the job.

I am a big believer in theorycrafting, but it can only go so far. We need to see what happens in the "real world" both in terms of which fights the different classes have trouble tanking (if any) or where any differences lie. Maybe block will become a big problem at high gear levels. Maybe druids will be dangerously close to maxxing out armor again. We can all guess about some of those things, and they are definitely on our radar. It is our belief that the tanks are all close at the moment. Close enough? We don't know that yet.

One of the things I would really like to explore in the future is a way for tanks to communicate more with each other. As it is I (wearily) bounce around from class to class trying to convince them that they aren't the worst one in the game. What would help is to have more classes talk to each other, since ultimately it's going to be you guys making the decision of who you bring for your MT, not me.

With this, I'm removing the restriction on cross-class comparisons and posting. Non-constructive posts will still be deleted on sight and trolls will still be moderated/banned.

**Lore** · #2 10-14-2008, 12:42 PM

Paladins > Everyone

DISCUSS

**Ciderhelm** · #3 10-14-2008, 12:43 PM

Source: Lore
Paladins > Everyone

DISCUSS

Son of a...

**Kazeyonoma** · #4 10-14-2008, 12:44 PM

There is no arguing the illogical! Strawman I say! uhh... Passive Tense! Uhh...... Onomatopoeia!

Parah · #5 10-14-2008, 01:04 PM

Source: Lore
Paladins > Everyone

DISCUSS

Tauren > Everyone

DISCUSS

Fix'd

I have to say Ghostcrawler really does make us all feel better that someone is working to truly balance everything in the WoW world we love so much. Making him what I consider to be the spokesman of Blizzard is probably the best decision they have come up with, even if he decided to do it on his own.

I can't wait to see how everyone holds up as we step into Naxx and beyond.

Rishkkin · #6 10-14-2008, 01:07 PM

GC == She ;-P

MonkH · #7 10-14-2008, 01:08 PM

how can warriors ever argue they are worst tanks!? even if they were theyd still have more than 50% base of MT spots

Esillymidget · #8 10-14-2008, 01:08 PM

Hmm, I wonder if the tanks get more dev time because of the influence of a community like tankspot. Poor poor shamans.

MonkH · #9 10-14-2008, 01:10 PM

Source: Lore
Paladins > Everyone

DISCUSS

./cheer!

**Ciderhelm** · #10 10-14-2008, 01:12 PM

Source: Esillymidget
Hmm, I wonder if the tanks get more dev time because of the influence of a community like tankspot. Poor poor shamans.

I think the devs decided to take more time with tanks, and our community influenced those changes because they knew where to look for feedback.

I said this maybe a month ago at this point, but it's no secret that a ton of the changes coming for Protection were posted and promoted by our community here. That's not to say that we were the only influence in those changes, but I'd wager we were a big part of it. Even things like Enraged Regeneration and Heroic Throw were being talked about in our "What Is Fun" news discussion, and then we saw them pop up in game as real abilities.

**Galushi** · #11 10-14-2008, 01:13 PM

all i can say is...Hi Dr. Ghostcrawler!!

**jere** · #12 10-14-2008, 01:15 PM

Source: Parah
Tauren > Everyone

DISCUSS

Fix'd

I have to say Ghostcrawler really does make us all feel better that someone is working to truly balance everything in the WoW world we love so much. Making him what I consider to be the spokesman of Blizzard is probably the best decision they have come up with, even if he decided to do it on his own.

I can't wait to see how everyone holds up as we step into Naxx and beyond.

Tauren Paladins > Everyone

Source: Rishkkin
GC == She ;-P

Tis a he. Check out the blizzcon footage.

**Shadevarr** · #13 10-14-2008, 01:16 PM

Well, our tankadin and I have decided to swap roles tonight on the hyjal trash waves so I will have some feedback on warrior aoe tanking in live tonight. Wish me best of luck and lets hope that TC, damage shield, Shockwave and vig will be enough!

Fryswithat · #14 10-14-2008, 01:17 PM

Are there any numbers on who does the most DPS on Single, 2-3mobs, and full aoe yet? (i wld assume pallys stilll have the 2-3+mobs.

Kyoki · #15 10-14-2008, 01:19 PM

Source: Fryswithat
Are there any numbers on who does the most DPS on Single, 2-3mobs, and full aoe yet? (i wld assume pallys stilll have the 2-3+mobs.

i believe pallys will have an advantage when aoe tanking but warriors and druids are pretty close behind them.

**Kenney** · #16 10-14-2008, 01:22 PM

The level of uncertainty expressed in that post makes me think that itemization in WOTLK isn't likely to be much better than it was in TBC.

These conversations are extremely difficult when you have warrirors and bears in BT gear arguing with warriors and bears in SSC/TK gear. Ideally you'd have all the raids itemized in such a way that every tank gets a comparable increase in threat/mitigation/avoidance. You shouldn't NEED player feedback to realize if druids come dangerously close to maxxing armor. You should have a reasonable expectation of what armor druids clearing x content will have.

Raw stats like damage taken, damage avoided, threat output, deaths, and average stats are best pulled from blizzard's databases- tankspot and elitist jerks don't have access to those raw statistics- and those are the statistics that should really highlight itemization issues. I'd think tanking sites would be much better at identifying for blizzard how ungainly the interface to certain skills were, or point out the "why"s of some of the confusing data they see through mining (like why druid tanks die 15% more often to boss x).

I suppose wws and wowjutsu could collaborate to provide some basic datamining capabilities, but I'd really expect blizzard to be the one initiating that kind of research.

**mero12513** · #17 10-14-2008, 01:26 PM

A pally friend and I will be scientifically analyzing ourselves for performance metrics starting today. We have very similar gear and will continue to have very similar gear all the way through the end of Wrath.

I'll be collecting data and making frequent updates as new numbers come in. If anyone has any suggestions on methodology for this, please feel free to shoot me a PM or just make a post somewhere.

**jere** · #18 10-14-2008, 01:31 PM

Source: Shadevarr
Well, our tankadin and I have decided to swap roles tonight on the hyjal trash waves so I will have some feedback on warrior aoe tanking in live tonight. Wish me best of luck and lets hope that TC, damage shield, Shockwave and vig will be enough!

Don't forget to buff Righteous Fury!!! Oh wait

Stubbi · #19 10-14-2008, 01:53 PM

Reality Check: Murlocs > Everyone!

Seriously, why do people insist that completely different characters with completely different play styles and completely different mechanics have to be the same?

If you don't like your character, roll one of the others that are so much better (grass is always greener syndrome)

Characters are only as good as the player at the keys coupled with a good guild affording the chance at advancement. Blizzard can not fix either of those.

Kyoki · #20 10-14-2008, 01:54 PM

Source: Stubbi
Reality Check: Murlocs > Everyone!

Seriously, why do people insist that completely different characters with completely different play styles and completely different mechanics have to be the same?

If you don't like your character, roll one of the others that are so much better (grass is always greener syndrome)

Characters are only as good as the player at the keys coupled with a good guild affording the chance at advancement. Blizzard can not fix either of those.

but they still try