More Dual Spec Details

**Lore** · #1 10-13-2008, 12:36 PM

I'm kind of burying Ciderhelm's excellent Warrior 3.0 guide here, so if you haven't seen it yet, make sure to click this text right here.

Anyway, Dr. Ghostcrawler gave a little more insight into how exactly the dual spec feature is going to work:

Source: Dr. Ghostcrawler, WotLK Developer
Our feeling is that any kind of cooldown just ends up punishing you for not being super organized, when the idea is to give you *more* flexibility.

Hey, can you provide the debuff in the boss this time?
You sure? Okay, let me switch.
No wait -- I think we have someone else coming.
Oh noes! Too late! Now I have to wait an hour.

Hey, want to go do BGs until our heroic healer gets here?
Okay, let me switch specs. Done.
Oh look, the healer got here early. We can go do that run now.
Uh... I'm in PvP mode now. Sorry.

Remember that the actual talent swapping isn't even the biggest part of the feature. Anyone with a little patience and a warlock can already hearth, respec and get resummoned. Cutting-edge guilds do it every fight. What we really want to offer is a way to remember what buttons you have on your bar for example.

I understand the concern coming from the pure dps classes. But those guys benefit an awful lot from a system like this too. Since dps is your primary concern most of the time, this gives you a way to have say a trash spec and a boss spec, or a cc spec and pewpew spec without hurting your performance on either. Most pure dps classes will still have more PvP vs. PvE builds too, and this lets you participate in both without jumping through a few hoops at the trainer.

Some threads have also pointed out the loss of gold moving out of the system, but really even at max cost, the amount spent on respecs wasn't much. We haven't inflated it to keep up with the rest of the economy for a couple of expansions.

We'll let you know more when we have more details worked out.

The key tidbits to take from that are that:

a) There is no cooldown
b) There is no cost

That's it, you press a button and you're a different spec, with all your buttons in the right places and your glyphs redone.

Obviously the ramifications for tanks are pretty big here, as we'll all be able to just switch to something else when you don't need an extra tank for an encounter or trash pack, and switch back for the next pull. That's pretty epic.

**Warwench** · #2 10-13-2008, 12:38 PM

my god, all my dreams are coming true!

I can tank again, and swap specs! ZOMG !

Kurgen · #3 10-13-2008, 12:42 PM

"That's it, you press a button and you're a different spec, with all your buttons in the right places and your glyphs redone"

All I can say is WOW (the feeling not the game).

blahism · #4 10-13-2008, 12:45 PM

Its a good option, but for me it would probably add to my suck. I just wouldn't perform well for a long time with dual spec master of none. I don't know how much effort it takes to grind from 70 to 80 but i'm guessing i'd better grind working my prot experience to know that in and out.. if fury/arms is ok as a sloppy seconds dps then i'm fine but when people expect you to tank and hold your own dps wise its asking a lot. For those with years of gear and experience, maybe not so much.. just another choice.

**Tatt** · #5 10-13-2008, 12:49 PM

I do not think many people will expect you to be an absolute master of both specs...for example I raid fury, my 2nd spec will probably be a dps heavy prot build. Can I tank stuff? Sure. Could I tank a raid boss with that spec or gear? Probably not. I think the idea is to provide more raid viability, not expect us to learn 2 specs back to front.

lusisia · #6 10-13-2008, 12:50 PM

Source: blahism
Its a good option, but for me it would probably add to my suck. I just wouldn't perform well for a long time with dual spec master of none. I don't know how much effort it takes to grind from 70 to 80 but i'm guessing i'd better grind working my prot experience to know that in and out.. if fury/arms is ok as a sloppy seconds dps then i'm fine but when people expect you to tank and hold your own dps wise its asking a lot. For those with years of gear and experience, maybe not so much.. just another choice.

The question is really this:

Does a inexperienced Fury/Arms warrior contribute more or less baseline dps than a prot-spec'd tank contributing DPS?

I might argue that, as a paladin with only basic (read: non-raid) retribution experience, the baseline tools alone would allow me to contribute more DPS than I could ever do as prot spec.

**Tatt** · #7 10-13-2008, 12:52 PM

In response to that I would say that while the dps might be about equal, by having a fury spec to switch to their would not be near the aggro issues of a prot dps'r dual wield devastating. We need to look at everything the different specs provide, not just the damage output.

Prunetracy · #8 10-13-2008, 12:54 PM

Source: Lore
That's it, you press a button and you're a different spec, with all your buttons in the right places and your glyphs redone.

I didn't see any info about glyphs being affected at all. Did you see that somewhere else?

It certainly would be nice if your glyphs swapped, but that's a different system than talents are.

Though, it also makes life more confusing... Suppose you want to switch between two tanking specs during a raid. Do you have to buy a second set of the glyphs?

**Lore** · #9 10-13-2008, 01:01 PM

Source: Prunetracy
I didn't see any info about glyphs being affected at all. Did you see that somewhere else?

It certainly would be nice if your glyphs swapped, but that's a different system than talents are.

Though, it also makes life more confusing... Suppose you want to switch between two tanking specs during a raid. Do you have to buy a second set of the glyphs?

It was announced in the Class Panels.

**Magnuss** · #10 10-13-2008, 02:02 PM

both my specs are going to be tanking specs. ill be damned if im gonna hold on to a dps spec and be forced into a dps role... ever.

i <3 my tank

**Porcini** · #11 10-13-2008, 02:02 PM

I've always felt that people should be able to play their class, not their spec. This is a great move that will hopefully make for more well rounded players.

**Tatt** · #12 10-13-2008, 02:05 PM

Magnuss...what if you are in a raid boss fight that takes one tank, and the mechanics of it are advantageous to using a pally/dk/bear to do it with? Yes prot can still do a lot of damage, but what if it is a threat sensitive fight like VR? Even if you use the exact same gear, just by having a fury spec with the threat reducer could mean the difference between a kill and a wipe.

**Magnuss** · #13 10-13-2008, 02:07 PM

Source: Tattman2an
Magnuss...what if you are in a raid boss fight that takes one tank, and the mechanics of it are advantageous to using a pally/dk/bear to do it with? Yes prot can still do a lot of damage, but what if it is a threat sensitive fight like VR? Even if you use the exact same gear, just by having a fury spec with the threat reducer could mean the difference between a kill and a wipe.

i just dont like dpsing. it isnt satisfying. so if they dont need me to tank, ill step out for someone else who wants to do the encounter more. but the simple fact that i "could" do a 1 button quickswap, makes it so that people would want me to more often, and i never really want to.

**Tatt** · #14 10-13-2008, 02:09 PM

I understand, but what if its a boss that you need to kill for a quest or specific piece of gear? Way back as OT I got asked to sit out on a curator fight so they could bring in more dps for flares (rofl). To this day that is the only kara run I have been on that I saw wrynn greaves and warrior T4 gloves drop, and I was sitting that fight.

Inaoe · #15 10-13-2008, 02:10 PM

This is awesome, really. But there's no excuse anymore not to collect a good dps set of some sort, now we can make perfect use of it by just switching specs.

But I like it. Actually it gives me a reason to practise and make use of a dps spec. What would be easier to learn, fury or arms?

**Tatt** · #16 10-13-2008, 02:12 PM

I would say fury as you will similar rage generation and attacking style, but I am not very educated in the changes to arms so might want to do some research.

**Magnuss** · #17 10-13-2008, 02:12 PM

Source: Tattman2an
I understand, but what if its a boss that you need to kill for a quest or specific piece of gear? Way back as OT I got asked to sit out on a curator fight so they could bring in more dps for flares (rofl). To this day that is the only kara run I have been on that I saw wrynn greaves and warrior T4 gloves drop, and I was sitting that fight.

I understand the point you are trying to make and im not saying there arent fights where i will sacrifice the tanking role to do something else. im just saying that i wont make it conveinant for myself or for a raidleader to have me go a dps spec. Im a tank cause i like tanking, if i absolutely cant for some reason then thats fine, but it wont be very often.

**Tatt** · #18 10-13-2008, 02:13 PM

Same here, since I went fury I despise tanking, feel like I hit like a wet noodle and it takes stuff way too damn long to die, I jsut like the idea of NOT giving a raid leader an excuse to ask someone to ride the pine for a fight, and I like the idea of being the most possible help to my raid as I can.

**Lore** · #19 10-13-2008, 02:15 PM

I'm gonna switch specs like every pull.

TANK GO NOW
RETDPS GO NOW

WOOOOOOO

**TomHuxley** · #20 10-13-2008, 02:20 PM

Source: Tattman2an
I jsut like the idea of NOT giving a raid leader an excuse to ask someone to ride the pine for a fight, and I like the idea of being the most possible help to my raid as I can.

I agree with that sentiment, and I suspect that (like it or not) the expectation to respec based on the encounter will be the norm. Perhaps the MTs of true progression guilds will just have 2 tank specs, but for most players in most guilds I forsee the day very quickly when respec is expected of all raiders that can do it.

You can moan about not liking it, but there'll be someone else waiting to do it if you won't.