[Nicki]

Source: phaze RD has a 10s cooldown on Beta/PTR.

snap it is hmm still its taunt mechanics are somewhat reckless...

[Nicki]

I also wanted to add that OT DPS at 70 in dps gear is:

700 with sword and board
900 with 2h

You get less mana issues with the 2h surprisingly but still go oom after 2 minutes or so..

I am guessing that ShoR does increase the value of a shield and sword when dpsing.

The best soloution would be to add something like returns 20% of your base mana on hotr pitty cant make it useable with 2 handers though i reckon that would be cool...

And err HOTR has a stupidly big radius on ptr i hit the next dummy no matter where im standing. So the 700 with sword and board is more like 600..

I just think it would be better to buff prot paladins dps so they dont become forced to tank due to not being able to do anything else or worse still forced to sit out due to being useless effecitvely.

[Nicki]

Source: Joanadark I lol'd

Well it makes a compelling argument to buff them

As which tank will you use the one who does 1000 dps when not tanking, the one who does 1100 dps when not tanking or the one who does 800 and goes oom after 4mins~

[phaze]

From GC, on Protadin mitigation:

Source: Ghostcrawler In our tests, Protection paladins have mitigation right up there with warriors and probably better threat generation. If there is anything we're concerned about, it's that eventually paladin block may not stack up to warrior block because of e.g. talents like Critical Block. But that's something we're keeping an eye on and please note that we're talking about theoretical encounters and gear that don't actually exist yet. The game could be completely different by the time we get to that point. We have made a ton of changes to the way classes work and haven't even gotten to see them on Live yet. In BC, it was not a goal to have paladins be able to MT every encounter. It is now. It is useful to point out areas where you think there are problems, and I promise we'll consider them. But you should really spec out of all the doom and gloom.

[Lore]

Yeah, there's been a lot of discussion revolving around that post on Maintankadin, and we've discovered that Ghostcrawler's statement is true... if the Warrior is using Shield Block as a "mini-Shield Wall" and not just spamming it every cooldown (which all Warriors do, as it's such a great threat/DPS increase). They've referred to Shield Block as a mini-Shield Wall on many occasions, so it seems likely that they're just expecting the Warrior to wait to hit it until he needs it, at which point Paladin and Warrior mitigation is very close (1-2%) until high levels of scaling.

However, since Warriors DO spam Shield Block, that number is somewhat meaningless, and we end up 4-6% behind on average mitigation.

[Dots]

It really makes me wonder how Blizz tests mitigation. Do they keep using cooldowns when testing DK mitigation, since 1 minute is not that long? What kind of numbers is GC talking about in the post that said DK avoidance is not much higher than warriors, does that really factor in a 4% parry weapon enchant, Blade Barrier being up 100% of the time and Frigid Dreadplate being up most of the time?

This is not supposed to be a rant about DKs, they are just the best example for this.

[phaze]

Source: Lore However, since Warriors DO spam Shield Block, that number is somewhat meaningless, and we end up 4-6% behind on average mitigation.

One factor that may be in play is the consistency of damage intake. CBs are gone, and Crits are expected to be removed by gear. That leaves the rest of the damage differences to pure armor, and blocking.

Prot Warrior tanks will have spikes from only blocking a portion of the hits. Prot Paladin tanking should be smoother, which is a big plus for Druids in BC content. Steady damage soaking promotes steady healing, making for less-stressed heal squads.

Aside from mitigation: how are the avoidance numbers comparing? Are Warrior and Paladin tanks roughly equal on Dodge/Parry/Miss?


On DKs:
I'm thinking DKs may get a passive mitigation boost, but their cooldown-based tanking abilities may be weakened to balance out. Depends on the final 'feel' the devs are aiming for with DKs (reliant on their cooldowns, or more stock mitigation/avoidance).

[Lore]

Interestingly enough, Warriors and Paladins tend to come out fairly equal on avoidance even though our T7 has very little avoidance on it. It's mostly because we get a lot more dodge from Agi than Warriors do.

Not that there's much of that on our gear either, but base + buffs make it add up pretty quick.

[Krash]

Could Blessing of Sanctuary be a culprit? Does Blizz assume all tanks have it when they do their damage mitigation assessment, or only the paladin tank? Hm. Since it's castable on other tanks, how do they balance that in terms of mitigation? If they're balancing things around only the paladin tank having it, aren't they always going to be at a 3% delta below the other tanks as soon as they cast on everybody else?

It seems like it could make up some of the deltas you guys are claiming.

[Alrinea]

with shieldwall on a 4min cd, why does anybody need a mini-shieldwall? just throw it out of the game if the mitigation is ok without it

[Lore]

With the ability to dodge, why does anyone need parry?

[jere]

Actually, keep parry, but replace dodge with thrust.

[phaze]

Source: jere Actually, keep parry, but replace dodge with thrust.

[jere]

Yes!!