[2ndNin]

Stupid idea.

The harder content gets the harder it is to pug to get the gear. Essentially you want to gate gear based on server progress so that there is a constant stream of players to those guilds and up the ladder.

The main issue is the way gear is assigned. If it went:

Badge Loot (226), 10 Man loot (232), 25 man loot (238), hard loot (245) - tagged 10/25 for achieves

Then it would be easier to control scaling. Pure badge gear is below the 10 man stuff until the instance is cleared where upon the next tier is opened up.

So tier 10 would be

badge loot (252), 10 man (259), 25 man (265), Hard mode (272) - tagged 10/25

There is a 2 tier gap between badge and hard mode, with a smaller gap between 10 and 25 letting them be tuned more closely.

If you want to open up a 2 phase badge schem then the completion of hard modes on your server opens up 25 normal mode equivalent gear so +1 tier for the same badges you got the original badges for.

There needs to be a constant flow into the system, and the current 10+1+1 tier system is getting out of control, it is almost not worth upgrading T8.5 to T9.10 (+10 stam per item ish) when there is badge gear and crafted at 245...

[Eravian]

I don't really mind the easier access to the loot, after all there are still a few pieces I could upgrade using those Emblems (although probably not by the time 3.3 hits), I just wish they'd put the badges in new content... even if they made a slew of new dungeons and put the badges there, it would at least make it feel less like work to grind these old dungeons that get increasingly easier to blow through over and over again to get new gear. I think a lot of this debate could be solved by simply making different heroics that drop different badges, rather than having to run AN, VH, and CoT every time I log on because they're short.

[lyd]

2 things:

1) you can't reliably gear and entire tune with only badge gear. badge vendors do not offer rewards for every item slot at every badge level.

2) since Wotlk was introduced, player have not and probably will never be able to purchase a full Tier set with badges. In order to even see a 4-piece set bonus, you must raid the content and complete it.


This is old hat. whenever a new tier of content comes out, they open up the previous tier to badges. raiders still have access to the best gear as a "reward" for their dedication and collaborative skill. I don't see what the problem is.

[Eravian]

One small note: the lowest tier 9 set "can" all be purchased with Triumph badges. They're available from the Triumph vendor at the Argent Tournament.

[mavfin]

Source: lyd 2) since Wotlk was introduced, player have not and probably will never be able to purchase a full Tier set with badges. In order to even see a 4-piece set bonus, you must raid the content and complete it.

Actually, this will happen in 3.3, since the 232 T9 can be all gotten with Triumph. I still don't see the issue. T9 will be one full tier behind in 3.3. And, the 232 T9 is really two tiers behind the 'elite' even now, as there's 245 and 258 T9, so I'm not sure what some high end raiders' problem is, other than ego.

[trueX]

well if you only run heroics currently, you can get max 2 tri badges each day (daily heroic) thats 210 badges needed to get all 5 items, @ 2 per day thats 105 days...I dont see the problem if someone runs something for 105 days in a row, seems committed to me :/

And post patch when tri badges are the new conq badges, it really wont matter as we will have badges of frost for new gear anyhow, no one is getting the best of the best gear as easy as you seem to make it.

[Feyd'Rautha]

I'm personally very glad. And I feel a little satisfaction watching all the elitists whine.

I started WoW around January '09. I quit by July because I couldn't get into Naxx10 to start my progression, despite having full 5 man gear.

Apparently you can't step foot into Naxx unless you have the achievement and full Naxx epics? Guilds who knew what they were doing wouldn't take me for the same reason (lack of achievement, lack of gear) and guilds who did recruit me were stupid beyond all belief.

I came back to WoW when they changed the emblem system, because I knew what it meant. I cleared Toc10 before I ever stepped foot into Naxx.

Now I don't step foot into a 5 man unless it's the daily. I don't do naxx unless I'm bored.

All the people crying about the emblem change... are just people who are worried about losing their epeen, their bragging rights, and their power to look down on others and call them noobs.

Well, guess what?

Bottoms on top.

The game's fun for me again, and hasn't been for months.

You think Blizz doesn't realize that it's the 95% of their player base, the "casuals" who really matter, not the 5% of "hardcore" players and the .05% who get server firsts? They do realize it. They're geniuses. They used the hardcore players to set the bar, and then they gave everyone else a stepstool. Geniuses.

Blizzard made this game and they want everyone to have fun. They want everyone to see the content they have labored on and spent months polishing. What's the point of them spending a year working on Icecrown if only 5% of players will ever see it? We all know the fate of raids in WoW- no matter how epic, they are forgotten history as soon as the next expansion comes out, abandoned and empty. You think Blizzard doesn't realize this? They do.

Who's to say that I, the average 10 hr a week player doesn't have the right to see it? You? Heh, sorry to burst your bubble, but Blizzard is the only agency which has the right.

[robbon]

The discussion seems quite balanced actually. Yes you have the guilds at the front end pushing hard modes within a week of release..then we have the lower population server guilds who struggle to get 10 man content.

I can understand Blizzards intent to get more people to see end game content..believe me i play Alliance on Lightnings Blade EU and we have Paragon spamming our chat channel everytime they get a server first / world first.. when we are wiping on the first boss in normal content...

They are at the front of the pack and we are in the mediocre middle.. we will have average raid gear by the time icecrown is released, they will be in uber Tribute gear.. ofc they will progress faster in the new content accordingly.

The badge gear enables us to gear up the masses of our guild faster and keep content interesting through the progression fights and keep hope alive. How many guilds broke up in SSC or TK trying to get to the BT/MH content ?

So im generally ok with it.

We wont get the server firsts but we will, eventually see the content.

[sicness]

Source: trueX well if you only run heroics currently, you can get max 2 tri badges each day (daily heroic) thats 210 badges needed to get all 5 items, @ 2 per day thats 105 days...I dont see the problem if someone runs something for 105 days in a row, seems committed to me :/ And post patch when tri badges are the new conq badges, it really wont matter as we will have badges of frost for new gear anyhow, no one is getting the best of the best gear as easy as you seem to make it.

This is what all the whiners fail to bring up. The gear is attainable to people who don't raid but it takes a considerable amount of time to get it. Even running pug 25s for badges it still takes a while.

I really don't get why some people are so against this, it helps all guilds in every way. It allows you to replace people who leave as well as people who under perform by giving you more raiders on your server. What's the problem?

[Bladesong]

It's not really much of a change - more like a continuation of the status quo. Currently any player has the ability to farm heroics to get badges for Uld25 level gear. After the patch, those same players will be able to farm badges to stay about the same distance behind players who are continuing to raid.

I can only speak from my own experiences, but I'm pretty excited about this since it will make it much easier to gear up an alt and put together an off spec set for my main. I understand the wisdom behind bringing up a new class through Naxx and Uld, but realistically I'm sick of running them. And by the time the patch comes out I'll be nearing saturation on ToC as well. Not that I'm thrilled with heroics, but it's easier to run three of them than it is to do a wing of Naxx and you get more badges.

Raiders still get to have better gear than casuals, it's just that the difference between them now is a gap instead of a chasm

[Effigy]

Really with the new expansion offering another 5 levels, I personally don't care about the changes. I am geared enough to tank Uld fine etc, I am not going to grind for further gear (at this stage) that I will need to completely change with the up and coming expansion. Not this time

So if I, in my tanking manage to pick up another piece here and there, thats nice, if not (as is usually the case), it isn't the end of the world as I am still raiding with a great bunch of guys.

[twyoon74]

To be honest, I think the change is bad. Ever since 3.2 got released, everyone was on emblem farming fever and instance server was full to the point where you were getting error messages.
Furthermore, easy access to the tier gear brought downfall to a lot of people. DPSs not knowing their role. Healers not knowing how to heal. Tanks not knowing and understanding fights. Couple times, I've ran into tanks with 35k+ health (well geared of course) didn't know how to kite one of the bosses in VH and I couldn't believe it.
The downfall of the change is people not being able to get into raids and all they are left to say is "But I'm geared" and brings their spirit down. Of course, the change will bring more chances to get into raids, however, there are people who are not capable of learning or slow learners. In the end, they are left with grief and disappointment worst than the time when they were not geared enough to join raids.
The biggest downfall of gearing is that people are not willing to put in time to learn. Doesn't matter if you are yelling at them in vent "Get out of fire!" or "Don't stand in front of the boss." There are many video clips out there to help you understand the fights and let you be prepared to certain point, but there are a lot of people who aren't willing to put in their time watching them.
Another thing is after 3.2 got released, many thought they don't need to run Naxx or Ulduar raids because they can purchase better gear. Now days, if you happen to pug Naxx or Ulduar, forget getting far 'cause even if people are geared and you explain the fights till your mouth is dried, excution becomes serious issue and after 3 wipes on a single boss, group starts to go south. What's going to happen when 3.3 gets released? Naxx will be pretty much empty and so as Ulduar. Why did Blizzard umphed up Onyxia? No one goes there anymore. There is no reason to go there.
Lastly, I was mad as a hornet when 3.2 change happened. I got over it cause I was able to get my alts geared really quickly, but there is something we lost with easy access to the gears. A sense of accomplishment. When I grinded hard in Ulduar for conquest emblems and finally had enough to buy a good gear, I was happy. Now, "couple more of this and couple more of that, I can get it" is what's on my mind. There is no "OMFG!!! I finally got it!!!" or "Yes, I can get in there now" kind of accomplishment. Feeling those accomplishements really made me enjoy this game. Also, the challenges I had to face as I got into harder raids.

[Bung]

I think what most people didn't point out is that most players are duel specced. For me getting the gear to tank and dps the hardest content in the game takes a long time. I also spend lots of time gearing for pvp. The emblem change would be great.

[derangedhermit]

Source: twyoon74 To be honest, I think the change is bad. Ever since 3.2 got released, everyone was on emblem farming fever and instance server was full to the point where you were getting error messages.

Uh ... no , the error messages came a long time before 3.2.

Also, some paragraphs would be nice

[Mr.Winkle]

I was slightly miffed when this was introduced in 3.2 since i had mainly been running Ulduar 10 and then suddenly felt that the rewards for my efforts was reduced. This feeling was only enforced further with the release of TOC 5.

However i soon got over it as i was quickly running around in 232 and now 245 gear. and TBH i actually benefitted to some extent gaining both offspec gear and alt gear much more easily.

My only gripe now is that i almost feel forced to have to continually run heroic dungeons for the latest gear. I can't believe there's anyone out there that still enjoys heroics.

[holyjebus]

i think it's needed tho. if you think about it the old H item lvl was 200 we are up to 258 now. the diffrence from 200 and 213 was big enough in the naxx days. just to see new IC content you will want to be in 226-232 at a minimum. wow is upgrading extremely fast. when new content comes out no one will do the "older" content making it hard for new/inactive 80's to get back into it. your not going to see an 80 farm nax then uld then toc just to get to the content gear. blizzard needs to bump up the emblems.

the better gear will always be reserved for raiders. just look at t9 (when the patch comes out) as heroic gear and t10+ as raiders gear. you can put all other gear in the past treat emblem geared players as heroic geard still new/inactive toon just begging.

- im bad at explaing things i hope you get what i was trying to say. if you need me to clarify or have any questions let me know. i will do my best to answer or i will find an answer.

thanks,
HJ

[woodyman]

I think everyone has a point here
you dont wanna work all your life to buy ur dream car an see the next door neighbour get given it for free.

But the setup does suit me.
i have a 3 month old baby girl. i may make 1 raid a month but i can fit in plenty of 5 mans.
just means when i do get time to raid its actually possible which is nice

[holyjebus]

grats on the girl mate

[woodyman]

thankyou! shes worth every wipe lool

[holyjebus]

haha, i got 2 boys i do a lot of wiping :P