[burnout180sx]

Source: drae -Fix vigilence, mebe similar to the way AD works on PTR? IE buff someone with vig, when they pass 110% of your threat, 5% of their threat gets xfered to the you. 2m internal cooldown. Therefore every 2 minutes if someone passed you in threat, they wouldn't pull, they would drop to 100% and the tank would jump to 110%

This is actually a nerf. Having vigilance only xfer 5% threat if someone was going to pull threat every 2 min is worse than having a constant 5% of a players threat xfered to you over the entire fight. Imagine hardmode hodir where casters are constantly riding you on threat, viligance would only have a chance to proc 2 times in this 3 min fight and while it would reduce one DPS's threat by a net 10% increasing your threat by 5% and decreasing theirs by 5% their would be a caster right behind the one that was about to pull aggro ready to fill in that threat spot and no vigilance their ready to stop them from pulling. I would rather have vigilance give me 5% of someones threat over the whole fight than only if they were going to pull aggro.

Threat management is a DPS responsibility not just optimizing a rotation and pulling big numbers on the meters. Blizzard never intended for a DPS to continue their normal DPS rotation even with a threat meter screaming at them. When your high on threat that means use a threat dump, call for hand of salvation or if those aren't available or enough slow/stop DPS until your threat is at a manageable level. DPS never pulls aggro because of a tank they pull aggro because they are stupid players. If anything your damage should be limited by a tanks aggro generating ability. If in the end the raid died because of an enrage then Dps can complain and say that they could have put out more damage but the tanks threat wasn't enough.

I hope blizzard doesn't read this i think its a good idea to do that to vigilance.

[drae]

The vigilance change could only be made if warriors TPS values were adjusted accordingly. (which is actually the goal of the change: allowing individually scaled tps) I agree that if implemented alone it would be a nerf.

The whole idea is to NOT rely on vigilance as a constant threat input; because in it's current iteration it is a crutch. It is plain stupid that we have to rely on another player for our threat production.

There is no question it is the responsibility of the DPS to throttle their own threat; however, why should it be the responsibility of a DPS to increase my TPS? ALL THE TIME! Because if vigilance is left in it's current form Blizzard cannot match out independent TPS to the other tanks. (and likely our DPS as well)

Blizz is not gonna want to invent a whole new talent; so it would still have to fit within the basic parameters of vigilance in it's current form. The idea behind vigilance in it's current form as I see it is to create a buffer between the warrior tank and the top threat DPS.

My recommendation would still create that buffer, and still work within the "idea" of watching over another target.

The whole point of this recommendation is it would allow Blizzard to keep the precious idea of vigilance "watching over someone" while allowing them to scale our DPS and TPS properly without worrying about some crazy ass warlock blowing our TPS outta proportion.

While it may be a "Nerf" on it's own, with INDEPENDENTLY and PROPERLY scaled DPS and TPS (which the entire warrior tank community is looking for) it would not unbalance the entire equation.

Further, it could (not saying it should) be designed so casters are 130% / 15% respectively. I just think if it was designed that way people would try to exploit it because of the MASSIVE threat jump.

TLDR; Don't put the cart before the horse.

P.S. the Vigilenced person would still proc a taunt when hit.

[drae]

Source: KnThrak Nah, just use the threat-transfer-trigger on only the Vigilance target. And for the cooldown I'd say if it gets triggered it removes Vigilance, and there's a 30s~45s cooldown until you can apply it again. Makes more sense that way around.

That's not a bad idea, however; I personally, HATE buffing mid fight, i got more important things to worry about.

[Ollin]

Source: burnout180sx Threat management is a DPS responsibility not just optimizing a rotation and pulling big numbers on the meters. Blizzard never intended for a DPS to continue their normal DPS rotation even with a threat meter screaming at them. When your high on threat that means use a threat dump, call for hand of salvation or if those aren't available or enough slow/stop DPS until your threat is at a manageable level. DPS never pulls aggro because of a tank they pull aggro because they are stupid players. If anything your damage should be limited by a tanks aggro generating ability. If in the end the raid died because of an enrage then Dps can complain and say that they could have put out more damage but the tanks threat wasn't enough.

There are days I miss fights like Broodlord. I think they should add a fight like him to the dream boss in the TotC...except make everyone a warlock pre-soulshatter

Remind the "modern dpsers" that threat-management is their job and no one else's.

[Tengenstein]

I always thought a warrior should get rage from the damage dealt/taken by the palyer under his vigilance, screw the damage reduction and threat transfer, something tiny like 1% of all damage dealth/taken is added into the warriors rage-gen calculation. would help with off tanking

it would be nice if vigilance also procced an enrage effect each time the vigilated player is hit, and perhaps even a rather potent CD if the vigilated player is killed by an enemy once per fight(though this would require vigilance not being castable in combat), i dunno maybe all heals on us crit and and we lose the damage penalty of defensive stance for 10 seconds, though this would require vigilance to be not be castable in battle..

a warrior can dream....

[Arikak]

Source: burnout180sx Threat management is a DPS responsibility not just optimizing a rotation and pulling big numbers on the meters. Blizzard never intended for a DPS to continue their normal DPS rotation even with a threat meter screaming at them. When your high on threat that means use a threat dump, call for hand of salvation or if those aren't available or enough slow/stop DPS until your threat is at a manageable level. DPS never pulls aggro because of a tank they pull aggro because they are stupid players. If anything your damage should be limited by a tanks aggro generating ability. If in the end the raid died because of an enrage then Dps can complain and say that they could have put out more damage but the tanks threat wasn't enough.

I agree with your thoughts on that suggestion for vigilance however I disagree in part to the quoted statement. Certainly in fights like Hodir/Maly where the tank often is not getting the same boost as the DPS player it is the responsibility of the DPS to watch their threat. Though the tank should be able to put out sufficient threat since those fights are often on enrage timers.

However, if it comes to a point on more "normal" encounters where the DPS is heavily threat capped constantly because the tank is not putting out the TPS to keep up/ahead; then it is a tanking issue. It could be gear, knowledge, skill, or lack of caring but its probably more a tanking issue than a dps issue. Baring, of course, situations like Mages with their Mirror Images where managing the threat is part of using the ability.

But over all like you say, a good dps will know when their threat might be an issue in a fight, and also watch or have a warning from their meters.

[KnThrak]

However, if it comes to a point on more "normal" encounters where the DPS is heavily threat capped constantly because the tank is not putting out the TPS to keep up/ahead; then it is a tanking issue.

You misunderstood the quote though.

A DPSer pulling aggro is the DPSers fault.
The Raid missing the enrage timer due to 6 DPS standing around dwiddling their thumbs because they threatcap... that is the tank's fault.

A DPSer just shouldn't die from overaggro or even ever get it. That's what Threat Meters are for. If they then from there lack the ability to produce enough damage, that's a wholly different issue.