[Taaryn]

Personally, my next 'Wish List' item is to see warriors get a little help with AE utility. We could use some slightly more forgiving cooldowns, imo.

[Dragaan]

Source: Taaryn Getting 5 rage every dodge, block or parry absolutely, systematically kills our rage issues while tanking.

When we have to lose focused rage to pick it up? I guess we could lose deep wounds and get both rage-friendly talents, but then we lose tons of threat/dmg. I'm not saying this change is terrible. It just sucks that we have to give up some talents elsewhere that we really CANNOT afford to be giving up. It's a win-loss situation, not a win-win. Looks like we can either have our talents for single-target rage or for aoe-tanking rage.

[Taaryn]

Perhaps you should copy your warrior over to PTR and try the changes before you insist on complaining so much about them? How can you label something a win/lose situation when you haven't even experienced it?

The only reason Focused Rage feels like (and for the time being, is) such a must-have talent is because of the woefully inconsistent rage gains we deal with on live. White hit/gain rage/Dodge attack/no rage/parry attack/no rage/white hit/low rage/parry attack/no rage/get punched in face for 25k/lots of rage/dodge/no rage/etc etc etc. Its a mess.

As of 3.2, its going to be white hit/gain rage/dodge hit/5 rage/block hit/5 rage/parry hit/5 rage/white hit/gain rage/get punched for 25k/lots of rage/dodge hit/5 rage. Having 3 less rage cost per attack suddenly means a lot less.

I spec'd out of FR (still have Deep Wounds though), ran OS, some of Naxx and Heroic Nexus/GD/DTK (until Novos bugged anyway) and I had no rage issues whatsoever - on AOE pulls or bosses. My dps and threat, opposite of your concerns, was markedly higher than it is on live, hence my reiterated comment about 'hating to come back to live'. I can tank those things here and discern the difference that rage makes. I can see it on threat meters and on Recount.

I seriously don't mean to like, give you grief but you strike me as kind of 'have to find something negative in this' when there is no negative. No matter which way you wanna try and slice it this is a major, major buff for warriors and probably the most requested in the history of our class. I would strongly recommend you actually go hands on with it before condemning the change based on what you think you have to sacrifice to have it.

[aramirloth]

Not sure this is actually helping much on a single target fight.
Example taken from a ~4min ignis fight:
Last Boss i fought i did 69HS(207extra rage used) and 61block/parry/dodge(305 extra rage gained) 8SS(24extra rage) 22dev(66extra) 14revenge(42extra) 4SW(12extra) 4CB(12extra) 4TC(12extra).
Yes i've deducted the SS i used during S&B and the Free HS from glyphs

So in total i would use 70(207+24+66+42+12+12+12=375. 375-305=70) extra rage during this fight if i traded focus rage for it.
So while i can see how this would be benefitial on a fast hitting boss it won't do much good on the typical hard but slow hitting ones.
I don't see much negative with it, but i'll have to find something other then Focused Rage to swap it with to make it worth it.

[Warwench]

Source: Taaryn Its 5 rage on parry, block and dodges.. your bar fills up fast!

sure it does, in fact even with spamming HS, while you are tanking hard hitting bosses your bar is almost constantly full now.

Getting more rage isn't going to solve the fact that the things we do with that rage don't do enough threat or damage when compared to other tanks. Spamming HS sucks, and it is REQUIRED to put out anything remotely decent. When tanking something that hits hard, I spend the entire time with a full or almost full rage bar, spamming HS to output medicore threat and DPS when compared to the other tanks in my guild. In fact i've had times when our DK tank forgot to take his frost presence off, and hi NOT tanking the boss is able to pull it from me eventually.

Lets see a warrior catch a DK in threat when he is not tanking.

[Lyco]

This is great news. I'd take the following spec ( I love utility ):
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

[Thulldar]

Source: Taaryn Personally, my next 'Wish List' item is to see warriors get a little help with AE utility. We could use some slightly more forgiving cooldowns, imo.

Rage on avoidance will be amazing for AoE utility. 5 rage every avoidance with 6 mobs hitting you? Bind cleave to mousewheel down, spam it, and watch them try to pull off you. Combine that with tclap/shockwave's already high burst aggro and we'll probably even be able to hold over a DK/paladin tank. Since cleave doesn't burn the global cooldown, you can even keep tabbing and using shield slam and devastate as long as you have the rage.

You can already do this when you're undergeared for the content. The patch will hopefully make it possible even when geared out.

I'll admit the mousewheel mechanic for heroic strike and cleave is lame, but hey, if it works...

[Karlhungus]

Source: Thulldar Rage on avoidance will be amazing for AoE utility. 5 rage every avoidance with 6 mobs hitting you? Bind cleave to mousewheel down, spam it, and watch them try to pull off you. Combine that with tclap/shockwave's already high burst aggro and we'll probably even be able to hold over a DK/paladin tank.

The problem there is that Cleave only hits 2 targets, or 3 if glyphed. I'm sure you will be able to keep the cleaves coming in 3.2 on groups of mobs, but it probably won't be as significant as holding aggro against Paladins or DKs unless they change Cleave. I'd really like the ability to be able to hit all targets in melee range front of the Warrior, not just 2 or 3. Have the glyph increase the crit chance or give rage on crit like the Heroic Strike Glyph or something instead.

[sicness]

Source: Warwench sure it does, in fact even with spamming HS, while you are tanking hard hitting bosses your bar is almost constantly full now. Getting more rage isn't going to solve the fact that the things we do with that rage don't do enough threat or damage when compared to other tanks. Spamming HS sucks, and it is REQUIRED to put out anything remotely decent. When tanking something that hits hard, I spend the entire time with a full or almost full rage bar, spamming HS to output medicore threat and DPS when compared to the other tanks in my guild. In fact i've had times when our DK tank forgot to take his frost presence off, and hi NOT tanking the boss is able to pull it from me eventually. Lets see a warrior catch a DK in threat when he is not tanking.

I hate to be pessimistic but I have to agree with you. Yes this will help us in content we outgear, but we still have a glaring issue of doing half as much dps as any other tank and also needing someone elses threat to keep up in TPS to other tanks. Add spamming HS and we still have a few issues that I wish they'd seriously look at. Don't get me wrong, this is a great buff, but honestly it needed to be done 4 years ago and right now is just kinda meh.

[Dragaan]

Source: Taaryn Perhaps you should copy your warrior over to PTR and try the changes before you insist on complaining so much about them? How can you label something a win/lose situation when you haven't even experienced it?

Of course I'm on the PTR. I also tank with sanctuary in every 25man raid, so I have experienced it (prior to 3.1).

This change only means I can hold threat more easily on aoe content (trash and 5mans for the most part) while wearing my "real" tank gear. I usually swap some gear, such as trinkets, for tanking that stuff atm. The thing is, I will STILL be wearing those threat/dps pieces for some of that content, as it helps me contribute more to dps.

[Smokiez]

I feel that the new patch does nothing for me as a warrior for end game material...
(edit: Except for the devistate increase)
Sure: I have rage issues, in heorics and naxx 10, and certain bosses in naxx 25...

But, even with those rage issues, I am still able to keep agro as an avoidance soft hit/exp cap tank in heorics and naxx 10. I just have to be more mindful of my rage, but what Skills I have as a warrior, I still can keep my threat above the person next in line. (and how I tank, I tell DPS to not hold back, If I cant keep agro, then I just need to get better) and following this example, I Have improved myself as a tank.

When im tanking in ulduar, whether im OT or MT, I never have rage issues. (I dont mT Vezax so I wouldnt know about that fight).

The only time I have rage issues is if... I have no agro on any mobs or bosses, which never happens.

also: im not a vet tank, I just started tanking/raiding when WoTLK was released, so I dont know how it was before, I just know what it is like for me as a Tank at this given time.

[Footloop]

I was thinking about dropping focused rage for 5/5 shield spec, but upon thinking about it that really doesn't make any sense. You're casting one ability (occasionally free from SnB) and hopefully one heroic strike every ~1.5 seconds. Focused rage shaves 3-6 rage off of that, and since SnB'd SSs aren't as common as other attacks, I'd say that you'll usually be burning ~5 rage every GCD. Now 1.5s is usually faster than a boss' attack speed, so even in the best-case scenario where you dodge/block/parry every single attack you're actually losing rage since you're attacking faster than the boss. Not to mention that misses don't proc it, and a normal hit or partially blocked hit tend to fill you to 100 rage, and you're only getting 'useful' procs on ~50% of attacks.

So in essence the more often you heroic strike the worse shield spec is in comparison to focused rage. Since the entire point of getting more rage is to enable more heroic strike spam (you can keep up a 'normal' rotation fairly easily if you must by forgoing HS) it seems fairly contradictory to take points out of focused rage.

What *might* be worthwhile is taking the points from cruelty and bumping myself up to 4/5 shield spec. If the extra rage enables me to use more heroic strikes, the extra crit from incite should more than balance the loss of 2% crit to everything else. This math is obviously kind of fuzzy, so I suppose I'll have to play around with it myself a bit before making any defite decisions.

[Wars]

So what kind of change would you want to see to help in these situations dragaan? Hard modes are supposed to be hard. If warriors were given more tools which further their ability to tank hard modes, we would be considered the clear choice for these encounters. At the moment, all four tanks can tank hard modes, and that's good.

These changes aren't supposed to make hard modes easier or less challenging. They are to help the warrior class as a whole for the moment. What would you want them to put in to help with hard modes that won't make us easier to heal and the clear choice for the encounters?

[Dragaan]

I'm just saying that this rage on avoidance stuff doesn't help much for end-game raiding. That's all I'm saying.

Source: Footloop What *might* be worthwhile is taking the points from cruelty and bumping myself up to 4/5 shield spec. If the extra rage enables me to use more heroic strikes, the extra crit from incite should more than balance the loss of 2% crit to everything else. This math is obviously kind of fuzzy, so I suppose I'll have to play around with it myself a bit before making any defite decisions.

This is exactly what I did. I will lose dps/tps on fights where rage wasn't an issue to begin with tho. :/

[protonly]

This warrior change sounds like the change I've been waiting for ever since WOTLK lauched. Can't wait to try it out on the PTR!

[gacktt]

I'd take 5% more hp than every buff they've given so far.

[Rixii]

So basicaly whats going on here is a nice change in the right direction, I'm happy that Blizz in there infinte wisdom decided that we needed something. I'm a little dissapointed that I have to sacrfice threat talents to get more rage to do threat, it would have been nice if it was built into defensive stance or a talent already used.

atleast Blizz is doing something instead of agreeing that warriors are broken and saying that there working on it but you wont see it till 9.0

[jettzypher]

why would people have to drop another talent to get into this one? maybe ive missed some special build somewhere due to my vacation, but ive always had 5/5 in shield specialization.

[Karlhungus]

Source: jettzypher why would people have to drop another talent to get into this one? maybe ive missed some special build somewhere due to my vacation, but ive always had 5/5 in shield specialization.

Can you link your spec?

[hbombs]

Source: veneretio The Adds are the harder job anyway. Emalon is just tank and spank.

Emalon is a 1 tank fight imo. (atleast in 10 man)