[adamb10]

Protection Currently, we think paladin tanks are almost there and that they just need slightly better cooldowns to handle some of the tougher boss fights. Rather than add a new ability that felt like a clone of another class’s ability, we decided to buff an existing talent that was no longer cutting it. Ardent Defender has two important changes. The first is that the damage can no longer “skip over” the 35% health level – it will always be reduced. Secondly, it has a new effect that if a blow would kill you, it instead sets you to 30% health. This portion of the ability cannot occur more than once every 2 minutes. Think of it as a Last Stand that you don’t have to push. A second change to Protection is we want to make sure Blessing of Sanctuary is always the tanking blessing of choice. A likely change here is to have it boost stamina as well. We also recognize that block does not provide the mitigation it once did. While we have long-term plans to change the way block works entirely, in the short term we are doubling the effect of bonus block value on items (so jewelry, but not shields).

World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Upcoming Paladin changes

Part of a long list of Paladin 3.2 changes.

This kinda frighten's me. Paladins are already imo better than warrior tanks, now there buffing them again.

[Ocin]

Source: adamb10 World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Upcoming Paladin changes Part of a long list of Paladin 3.2 changes. This kinda frighten's me. Paladins are already imo better than warrior tanks, now there buffing them again.

Yeah our 1 CD is great for hard mode burst damage :P

Also? there's a topic on this already started.

[Duzzit]

the grass is always greener...

[Meeks]

In my opinion warriors just need their shield wall/last stand glyphs to be rolled into the baseline skill and get a hp boost then all 4 tanks will be a lot closer to equal than they have been.

Also got to see how the ptr plays out...I am sure it is not going live exactly as it is. They seem to be trying to make a real attempt to balance out cool downs so I expect a slight warrior change before we are done.

[Muffin Man]

If the promise to buff block pan out, Warriors may get a huge buff in the form of Shield Block. Then after that, maybe we'll get a buff to Vitality so that our Stamina evens out in the end (since we scale slower and our stamina was equalized to Pallies around Naxx gear AFAIK).

BTW, should we get a Mod to merge this thread into the other one?

[Armande]

I'm not so keen on this.
Its essentially giving paladins a permanent slightly improved guardian spirit buff with a 2 minute cool down between procs.
The difference for me between Last Stand / Guardian Spirit and this change is that with the previously mentioned two they need to be used proactively. Using either of these after the tank dies isn't even possible. Where the change for paladins gives them a get out of death free card as a passive ability.

Unless I completely misread the patch notes my understanding is paly gets killed by boss, comes back to life with 10-30% of their HPs ( I would assume anyone taking this is going to max it out). Its a cool down that is always ready at exactly the right time removing any human error or skill from the equation. IF you are skilled enough to invest 3 points in this talent thats all you need.

But of course this is early and as we all know things will change one way or the other. I am not oppossed to Paladins even getting Last Stand but this seems to be a much improved version of the warrior ability.

just my two cents

[SquishemHard]

I actually suggested this as a change to the warrior version of last stand many months ago... god I hate blizz right now.

[Nadir_]

With the PTR note changes, Paladin is the new DK.

I doubt half of this shit will make it into the live version. I'll be happy with a second cool down and IBF on a 2 minute cool down.

[sicness]

I'm still on the fence about this one. While a nice change to the talent, I expected an actual 'on use' cool down rather than one that's passive because it'd be more reliable.

[Narshe]

They will make it non-passive or else it won't be on live.
The rest of Ardent Defender change is what they should have done months ago and it's fine.

Honestly, just making Glyph of salvation don't steal your aggro when HoS used on urself was enough, but I'm not gonna say I don't like this change

[Ieatpugs]

This is insanely powerful, especially in only 1 talent. I'll be glad for my '15 mins of fame' when it goes live.

Though the cheat death part is very good. The 30% dmg reduction of any strike taking you below 35% health is grossly overpowered.

[Stephanius]

Source: Ieatpugs This is insanely powerful, especially in only 1 talent. I'll be glad for my '15 mins of fame' when it goes live. Though the cheat death part is very good. The 30% dmg reduction of any strike taking you below 35% health is grossly overpowered.

The problem is that with 20k hits a talent that reduces damage below 35% just does not work, the reduction will be leapfrogged. First hit, too high HP. Second hit, below 35% or dead. Third hit dead for sure. It never procs.

That was no problem with Naxx25 bosses hitting for less than 10k, there it was useful.

Blood DKs have a similiar mechanic - with a lower % reduction though which works exactly as they propose to use the pally talent now.

[Qhorin]

Source: Stephanius Blood DKs have a similiar mechanic - with a lower % reduction though which works exactly as they propose to use the pally talent now.

The DK mechanic does not take it off every hit it is a single hit with a cooldown before it can happen again.

[Candytank]

shouldn't prot pallies already be speced into AD? Ive seen some that think its useless to spec into atm. please tell me im crazy or direct me to the post that explains why this is a worthless talent atm.

[Akeber]

Source: Candytank shouldn't prot pallies already be speced into AD? Ive seen some that think its useless to spec into atm. please tell me im crazy or direct me to the post that explains why this is a worthless talent atm.

Even with the possibility of AD being leapfrogged, it is still considered "mandatory".

[jere]

Source: Candytank shouldn't prot pallies already be speced into AD? Ive seen some that think its useless to spec into atm. please tell me im crazy or direct me to the post that explains why this is a worthless talent atm.

It is not worthless over all. Anything that hits for 50% or more of your health, however, will never proc AD in a lifesaving way. It's mathematically impossible.

It is good for trash and weaker hitting bosses, but for most bosses in ulduar, it would not really help at all.

As an example. Say for the sake of argument, that the current implementation of AD would reduce damage by 30% if you were exactly at 35% health. If a boss hits for 50% of your max health, that is reduced by 30% to give you a hit that now hits for 35% of your health. So even if AD could reduce it, it would still kill you in the current incarnation.

It does save you from little hits though, so it is still very useful.

[Wars]

There has been some discussion and clarification on maintankadin that seems that this latest version of AD will not be leapfroggable. Inside the 2min CD on pallycheatdeath the above situation where you die is still a great possibility.

[jere]

Well I was referencing the current version as that was what the question I answered was referring to...not the 3.2 version.

They can't clarify anything until the PTR is out. Has it started yet?

However, it doesn't matter. Even if it were not leapfroggable, a hit of 50% or more of your health would still kill you in AD range.

If the PTR is indeed out, has anyone tested to make sure it still reduces damage past the hit that takes you into AD range? The blue post's wording makes it sound like the old functionality is gone and the new functionality is to reduce the hit that takes you to 35% or less (they use the phrase "instead").

[zeruvar]

Ive posted something about the pally changes under the DK 3.2 nerfs topic. Theres some debate about how AD would actually proc in 3.2.

A) passive 30% reduction to all damage done that would bring you to 35%or below

B) passive 30% dmg reduction to any damage OVER the total needed to bring you to 35%

e.g.

40k maximum HP 35% is 14000

incoming 30k damage

A) 30% is reduced from 30k damage flat out. 21000 damage incoming

b) 30% is reduced after being dealt enough damage to bring you to 35%
you need 26000 damage to be brought to AD range, after that you still have 4k damage afterwards

30% dmg reduction of 4000 is 2800

so all in all, the final incoming damage would be 28800


And then there would still be the 30% reduction from all hits when your under 35% hp as how AD is now. Leapfrogging is the main issue with AD, but when the 30% passive reduction kicks in, youd be glad you have it.


For the ICD 2 min auto res? i doubt its gonna stay like that. its tooooooooooooo good to be true. Id hate to say it, but its for the dumb tank. Id rather have the effect to be an on-use CD, and take the blame if I mess up on using it, than say having it proc because i was too careless to watch if i was about to eat a plasma blast. (i have to digress that it would be nice to have, but thats just unfair to all the tanks who have to decide when to use CDs)

[PhilS]

Source: zeruvar And then there would still be the 30% reduction from all hits when your under 35% hp as how AD is now.

I think this part of AD is gone in the new version. No dmg below 35% will be reduced, only damage that would take you to 35% or below.