[Ciderhelm]

Source: Tatt Ok someone explain to me, I was always under the impression that iron weighed slightly more than steel, so if a full suit of steel weighs in excess of 2000 pounds, how the hell did historical knights pull this off? I understand that most heavy armor wearing combatants were astride horses, but still I cannot even imagine lifting a lance if I was carrying over 300 pounds of armor on me, and I am quite strong. Is it the detail of the armor that is increasing its weight exponentially?

Knights didn't wear Onslaught!

The dimensions are very, very dissimilar. The design King is looking at would be extremely bulky, as is obvious from the final weight. True "Knight's" armor would have been plated and (to a small degree) contoured, w/ adjoining areas connected by rivets. Alot of the protection offered came through a layer of chainmail and/or leather beneath it.

Keep in mind that medieval Armor was incapable of stopping the very earliest guns.

[Satrina]

I'd imagine that'll be a 80-85 pound kit in 20ga. steel. Assuming he finds a reasonable way to attach and balance the shoulders, that's fine for walking around in all day.

To contrast, my current kit (for SCA armoured combat) weighs 55 pounds using a mix of aluminum (the aforementioned T6061) and 16ga. steel plates, plus an 8 pound shield in T6061. You can run around whacking at people for hours with that weight with no troubles, and there are guys in all-steel half plate who do the same.

I wouldn't want to do the shaping of T6061 for what that's going to call for. It's a pain to work with just to curve. Titanium is even worse - thought a professional armourer almost certainly has a pneumatic hammer for planishing, which makes up for a lot of gruntwork.

Edit: 2000 pounds! Jousting armour was not what one wore on the field to fight; that was a specific armour made for a specific purpose. Even then, surviving joust armour is about 100 pounds. If balanced properly, that's not impossible to walk around in by any means.

[Krumgork]

Yeah, the issue with the weight being ridiculous is how thick the armor is in several places. The pauldrons alone look to be very thick combined with solid steel spikes? No thank you. If this were solid metal, you'd have to be Robocop or the Terminator to wear it - on the other hand, you'd probably be about as unstoppable.

[kolben]

If you were to actually craft a set of high shoulders like Onslaught or Dreadnaught wouldn't most of the height probably be suspension or padding? Wouldn't think there would be as much need for it to be really thick as much as for absorbing shock.

I think another point on heavy suits of armor that's worth mentioning is that people from the time were probably just really tough. Imagine yourself as a peasant farmer pushing a plow through hard earth behind a stubborn horse your whole life. Yeah, you'd be a strong sumbich to say the least, much stronger than people of today by comparison. I imagine professional soldiers wore at least their heavier pieces of gear in training all the time, kind of like that football coach that made you wear your helmet no matter what during 2-a-days.

[Krumgork]

Here's one you're going to love! Here's the proposed proportions for the shield and the axe. I think in the end I'm going to end up with the shield at around 39". I told him larger was probably best for the Bulwark of Azzinoth, but 48" just seems amazingly large and too unwieldy for even a costume armor set.

[Tatt]

Probably Kolben, thinking about true armor in a combat situation you would want it to be more of a deflective piece that a true swing stopper....sloped on top so that downward strikes slid down outside the arm, more reinforcement on the side and some kind of hook or notch to prevent horizontal swings from sliding up and continuing for the neck.

[kolben]

Yeah I'm picturing high areas at the neck, and rounded downward slopes at the shoulders. The knight pictured in the opening cinematic for WC3 has fairly practical looking shoulders and helmet. Padding of some kind whether it was an under layer of leather and sheepskin or attached would have been essential I would think. Hard steel smashing against bones wouldn't feel too good.

[Tatt]

Satrina, curious, are different size swords allowed? For example, you say that you compete at 5'11" and 190 pounds.....I typically walk around in my best shape well over 40-50 pounds heavier than that....would someone like myself be allowed to use a weapon which size allowed an advantage? Or is it more of a speed and precision event?

[Optimoos]

Ok, seeing as this is being done in Calgary (where I live) I *MUST* have an opportunity to see it in RL before it leaves the city I'll buy drinks/dinner!

[Tatt]

Optimoos is a transformers fan and Canadian.....you are SO off my buddy list

[Thistlefizz]

This is one of the coolest things I've seen in a long time, and I look forward to seeing the end result.

Are you going to have a tabbard and a cloak made too?

[Satrina]

Source: kingharbromm Here's one you're going to love! Here's the proposed proportions for the shield and the axe. I think in the end I'm going to end up with the shield at around 39". I told him larger was probably best for the Bulwark of Azzinoth, but 48" just seems amazingly large and too unwieldy for even a costume armor set.

Sounds about right. My melee shield is 36 inches tall. When holding it so the top corner is just under my eye level, the bottom point is covering my knees. Taller guys use slightly taller shields. I have seen a shield wall of 48" shields before, but that's a very specific formation that uses polearms behind to do the actual fighting behind the defensive wall.

[Elryk]

This is going to be truly epic once it is completed! (can't wait for pics)

p.s. that shield is gonna be brutally heavy :-)

[Janana]

looks pretty cool, since it will display type, least i hope....
I agree using 6061 T6 Aluminum would make it significantly lighter and wearable.

[Durnic]

Well it is nearly seven feet long and almost 50 pounds.

[Krumgork]

Notes from the phone conversation this morning!

We talked a lot about the shield. Yes, it's going to be heavy - though not brutally so. We're looking somewhere between 15 - 25 lbs. It's going to be box construction to give it some thickness. I told him I wanted it to look like it could stop bullets and that's what we're going for. For the weight, he suggested adding a shoulder strap for when I'm not wielding it. The shoulder strap would secure to the neck armor and take the weight off the arm when it's not in use. Behind the shield, it would be really tough to fasten it to these HUGE gauntlets. Since it's not really a practical armor I'll be fighting in, I told him I'd be willing to even consider something like a locking clamp that could fasten it to the gauntlet. This is just one of the logistical nightmares with this suit of armor.

The helmet was a big concern for me. The faceplate is so huge and hangs down. Mich honestly thought, for a while, that the faceplate rested on the breastplate. We got the faceplate pulled out (like a football helmet) and wider than the dome top. We added armor to the back of the helmet since having the whole back of your head exposed is kindof ridiculous. Still, logistically this is a pain since turning your head from side-to-side will bump your faceplate into the pauldrons. Something we're still working on.

The pauldrons are going to look great. The plan is to build a yoke since they're pretty immobile looking. Only the bottom part of the pauldron will articulate into the top part. The spikes and the enormous neck guard will be static, fastened to the neck guard. I asked for more width since we lost a lot of it on the real life mannequin. We're going to add extra padding under the armor to move away from the neck and use the yoke and leather straps to hold it to the arm and shoulder. Now the spikes are bumping into the shield! Another logistical nightmare.

The chest is a 4-part chest. Upper & lower, front & back. The upper is a just a breastplate. The lower ab section will articulate as you bend - as what's suggested in the game model.

The gauntlets are a huge concern concidering their size and detail. They're probably going to be the most expensive part of the armor.

The Brutalizer is going to be 30" long and fastened to the gauntlet with a weapon chain. It was a last minute addition that I remembered. He's considering making it bigger considering the disparity between my size and that of the mannequin.

The belt will be metal. We have two options. A basic belt with raised box-style additions riveted to the belt OR several flat plates that bend around with indentions in each plate. I still can't tell from the artwork whether it's raised or indented. It's really just different colored. We added a groin protector and tail bone protector.

The leggings were originally misdrawn. The upper leg goes INTO the lower leg as we looked it. The knee guard actually is on top of the upper leg guard. That's something we're working with. The lower leg guards are just ridiculously wide. To wear them as animated would require walking like a cowboy everywhere. No thank you. We're going to have to slim down the calf armor some.

The boots are going to be armored. We didn't have a lot to work with here so I used the GIF drawing from the game. It's the picture you'd see if it was in your backpack. It has like a spiderweb type plating on the toe. It'll look great.

The whole armor is going to be painted with a clearcoat is seen in the game. I told him I wanted it to look weathered and battle-worn so that's how we're going to spruce it up. We're going to add some slashes and such to really make it look realistic.

All in all, I raised the price up to get more detail. With something this grand you don't want to do it half-arsed. The price isn't really that much more so, it's not that bad. We're looking at around $9000 Canadian.

[Hengist]

Source: kolben I think another point on heavy suits of armor that's worth mentioning is that people from the time were probably just really tough. Imagine yourself as a peasant farmer pushing a plow through hard earth behind a stubborn horse your whole life. Yeah, you'd be a strong sumbich to say the least, much stronger than people of today by comparison. I imagine professional soldiers wore at least their heavier pieces of gear in training all the time, kind of like that football coach that made you wear your helmet no matter what during 2-a-days.

Hmm, they also didn't ate as much as we do, and they had whole lot of injuries and illnesses through their lives They were also slightly physically -smaller- than we are now. I think most of people in present times are stronger than medieval dudes.

[Satrina]

Is he going to go hollow box for the shield? You might be further ahead by taking two curved pieces of 1/2" plywood sheathed with 24 ga. steel to make the front and back side, then rivet them together with the outer ridge sandwiched between the wood.

[quinten]

Source: kolben I think another point on heavy suits of armor that's worth mentioning is that people from the time were probably just really tough. Imagine yourself as a peasant farmer pushing a plow through hard earth behind a stubborn horse your whole life. Yeah, you'd be a strong sumbich to say the least, much stronger than people of today by comparison. I imagine professional soldiers wore at least their heavier pieces of gear in training all the time, kind of like that football coach that made you wear your helmet no matter what during 2-a-days.

While physical labour was common back then, it still exists. The real difference is the vast disparity in nutritional levels. Compared to people from a medieval time period, modern humans are bigger and stronger than back then on account of a safer, higher quality food supply. This is especially apparent when you get into terms of highly conditioned individuals like athletes and soldiers. In the 70's, Guy Lafleur was one of the best hockey players in the world and he was famous for smoking in between periods and Babe Ruth was obese yet still considered an elite athelete in his era. The level of conditioning is so high that this would be unthinkable today.

[Ciderhelm]

Source: Hengist Hmm, they also didn't ate as much as we do, and they had whole lot of injuries and illnesses through their lives They were also slightly physically -smaller- than we are now. I think most of people in present times are stronger than medieval dudes.

This is right on the money. Better medicine and nutrition has changed the size and stature of most of the human race, particularly in North America and Europe. Citing Wikipedia, "In the late nineteenth century, the Netherlands was a land renowned for its short population, but today it has the second tallest average in the world."