[TaiSHi]

Krazen, there is a topic I would like you to see regarding rotation.
Shockwave & Concussion Blow are also threat/dps on single targets.
Warrior Single Target Threat Rotation (Flowchart)

Regards, and welcome to the tank crowd!

[Krazen]

Wow, thanks so much for the help guys.

Now just to "master the technique". Should be a lot of fun...

[Adanel]

I have a warrior that i leveled 70 to have some fun in KZ and to mine/herb, used to play as Arms Slam DPS with him.

Haven't played with him when 3.0.smt hit but started to level him after the xpac(slowly, i'm usually afk when logged) as TG... my tauren looks so cool with 2 2handers that i couldn't resist. But after some time i felt it wasn't fun, there wasn't much things to manage or pay attention, if BT crits -> slam, WW... rage gets high start queuing HS and was only that.

Then i respecced to arms, in the 2 lvls from 71->73 i've got 10x more fun than the one as TG, as arms you have so much to do and to pay attention, it fells like i have much more controll and interaction with my DPS.

Can't talk about prot since i was never prot with my warrior and his prot gear was so bad that i never cogitated to level him as prot.

[Arrivan]

I've done both the Prot and Fury thing so far and have loved both. I wish dual specs were implemented now so I could switch between them on a whim. My progression so far has gone 70-71 Fury, 71-72 Prot, 72-73 Fury, 73-78 Prot, 78-79 Fury (and probably 79-80 Fury unless I change my mind again) I love being able to solo group quests as Prot, but I also love the sheer badassery of dual wielding two handers. I can't decide!

[Otori]

I'll go ahead and toss in my vote for leveling as protection. I did it from L58 to L70 when I created yet another warrior during TBC. When WotLK launched, I stuck to protection from L70 to L80, and I can count on one hand the number of times I died, and I can count on one hand the number of quests I had to wait around for someone else to help. (In WotLK, there was ONE quest in my entire grind that I couldn't solo.)

Try protection. You'll become a better tank because of it, and you'll enjoy the fact that you'll never have downtime unlike most other classes.

[Forklift]

Real quick: There seems to be a misconception that prot is the only spec that offers no downtime. I have to disagree. If you level right, do primarily a mix of green and yellow quests, you will not need any noticeable downtime with arms, if not with fury as well. The time saved by doing better DPS dwarfs the occasional 8 seconds it takes to bandage. I mean, it's not even close.

Also, about "not dying" as prot--leveling is not about survivability. If you can't figure out a way to survive the few seconds it takes to kill a mob and instead prefer less DPS for more mitigation, you're leveling wrong.

[Norrath]

Source: Forklift Real quick: There seems to be a misconception that prot is the only spec that offers no downtime. I have to disagree. If you level right, do primarily a mix of green and yellow quests, you will not need any noticeable downtime with arms, if not with fury as well. The time saved by doing better DPS dwarfs the occasional 8 seconds it takes to bandage. I mean, it's not even close. Also, about "not dying" as prot--leveling is not about survivability. If you can't figure out a way to survive the few seconds it takes to kill a mob and instead prefer less DPS for more mitigation, you're leveling wrong.

No one claimed there were any noticable downtime with Arms.

What we're saying is that Prot can do EVERYTHING Arms can, with survivability to boot.

(And Warbringer. Come on, Warbringer. You'll not find a sexier talent.)

[Muggs]

I used protection to level my warrior, I only used bandages till lvl 75 when I got enraged regeneration. I mix up arms and prot now as I do dailies and clean-up questing, I find I take more damage and pop enraged regen more often when I am arms, but I still don't use bandages or food in excess.

Personally, I say you should simply level in whatever spec you feel most comftrable with. I'm a long time paladin, so I'm not a fan of "stance-dancing" so talents such as Warbringer really appeal to me.

[Arvandor]

There's one thing that makes me want to spec arms over fury for the lower level stuff.

Heirloom 2h axe =P

[Eunuch]

I leveled fury, and with some okay (hyjal) gear I stayed at high health and was able to multi pull 4-5 mobs if I wasn't stupid.

I won't ever level as not fury.

[Forklift]

Source: Norrath No one claimed there were any noticable downtime with Arms.

Someone above did, yes.

What we're saying is that Prot can do EVERYTHING Arms can, with survivability to boot. (And Warbringer. Come on, Warbringer. You'll not find a sexier talent.)

Prot cannot kill things as quickly, cannot sweeping strikes, cannot rend for cocktacular damage (unless you're willing to give up a shield), cannot proc limitless overpowers, etc., etc.

As far as warbringer, you stay in battle stance 100% of the time with arms--why would you need warbringer?

Look, no need to get defensive. I'm just tired of the endless trolling for prot leveling. It's great fun, and allows you to be careless while leveling and whatnot. But let's not get ridiculous here--it's almost always less efficient.

[Arvandor]

As far as warbringer, you stay in battle stance 100% of the time with arms--why would you need warbringer?

Warbringer makes it so you don't have to stance dance to charge while leveling as prot =P

It's great fun, and allows you to be careless while leveling and whatnot. But let's not get ridiculous here--it's almost always less efficient.

Sounds like the difference between leveling Blood or Unholy -_^

The real question though, while prot is "easier yet slower," compared to arms, I'm more interested in arms vs fury.

Is fury still king of the warrior leveling specs? According to a thread in the guide section here it was in TBC, has enough changed with both arms and fury to upset that?

[Forklift]

Source: Arvandor Warbringer makes it so you don't have to stance dance to charge while leveling as prot =P

My point is, if you never have to go into defensive, you never have to stance dance. Prot creates the problem that it solves with Warbringer--it's irrelevant to comparing prot with arms.

The real question though, while prot is "easier yet slower," compared to arms, I'm more interested in arms vs fury. Is fury still king of the warrior leveling specs? According to a thread in the guide section here it was in TBC, has enough changed with both arms and fury to upset that?

From what I can see, Arms has become about 100x better at leveling, and fury has become slightly worse--the relevant point is probably whether you have +hit gear or not. If you're leveling straight through from below 70, arms is almost certainly better; if you're leveling an old 70 with purple gear, even from like kara, fury may be better.

[Norrath]

Source: Forklift Prot cannot kill things as quickly, cannot sweeping strikes, cannot rend for cocktacular damage (unless you're willing to give up a shield), cannot proc limitless overpowers, etc., etc.

Sweeping Strikes is irrelevant; Protection has Shockwave and Damage Shield (and potentially shield spikes). Who needs Rend? Most anything you fight will die too fast for Rend to tick to its full duration. Overpower is neat, but a) it implies you've just lost damage (you can only use it after a dodge or after one out of two parries, assuming you have the glyph), and b) due to said restriction, the entire Expertise skill actually lowers your damage output.

As for "cannot kill things quickly..." That's a matter of interpretation. Perhaps it won't kill as fast as Arms, but it kills fast enough.

Source: Forklift As far as warbringer, you stay in battle stance 100% of the time with arms--why would you need warbringer?

It's not about stance-dancing. Warbringer has three primary benefits: It causes Charge to break move-impairing effects (such as roots, slows; basically anything short of a stun), it lets you Charge while in combat (giving you a secondary interrupt as well as essentially free rage), and it lets you use Charge while in any stance. The last is without a doubt the least of these, even though it is still powerful.

Warbringer is without a doubt the single most powerful talent in all three trees. The only drawback is that Charge has minimum range.

Source: Forklift Look, no need to get defensive. I'm just tired of the endless trolling for prot leveling. It's great fun, and allows you to be careless while leveling and whatnot. But let's not get ridiculous here--it's almost always less efficient.

It sounds to me as if you're knocking something you haven't tried. Protection levelling is definitely not less efficient. Even though you do less DPS, you can take far more mobs at once, even considering Sweeping Strikes and Bladestorm.

[Meeks]

Source: Norrath Sweeping Strikes is irrelevant; Protection has Shockwave and Damage Shield (and potentially shield spikes). Who needs Rend? Most anything you fight will die too fast for Rend to tick to its full duration. Overpower is neat, but a) it implies you've just lost damage (you can only use it after a dodge or after one out of two parries, assuming you have the glyph), and b) due to said restriction, the entire Expertise skill actually lowers your damage output.

You are forgetting that for an arms warrior most of your overpower procs have nothing to do with dodge/parry and rather rend ticks. Expertise is still a good stat as landing your normal attack is always better then a dodge --> OP.

And sweeping strikes is not used a lot but is very powerful in certain situations. Not ground breaking but hardly irrelevant.

And rend ticks pretty good as arms...accounting for about 12-15% of my damage while leveling and it procs OP.

[Norrath]

Meh, right, I forgot about the Rend -> Overpower thing.

The rest of my post stands, though.

[Lumines]

I thought I'd contribute my experience from the point of view of someone who has been (and still is) levelling a warrior from scratch and has a tankadin main.

My first warrior alt got to level 26 before being deleted, as I was frustrated by the lack of survivablity at lower levels. I tried to level prot then (he was before I had my paladin) and found it immensely frustrating, and fury not very fun. My current warrior toon was inspired by the patch changes. My reading around the topic didn't leave me too inspired about Fury, but Arms did (and still does) look much more intriguing - so Arms it was.

Got him to Outlands and through HFP as Arms. Greatly enjoyed the fact that it relies on you watching your procs to get the most benefit, but again got frustrated by the lack of survivability (this may, in fact, due to the fact that my pally was bulletproof while levelling through Northrend, which has no doubt made me sloppy). Read some stuff about the prot changes and thought I'd give it a whirl.

Survivablity concerns are gone. Stuff dies just as fast as Arms (may well be a gear issue - into Outlands at 58 in crappy old world greens, into Northrend at 68 in crappy Outlands quest greens), but I can take 4 or 5 at once and be ok (albeit with a quick bandage after - bring on enraged regeneration!). I have more buttons to press than as Arms, and I'm having just as much fun. Whizzed through Outlands in 2 and a half days over the holidays, and making a dent into Northrend firmly as prot.

I still might go back to Arms at 80 (masochist, I know), or keep him Prot, who knows. But levelling as Prot has been a damn sight easier than as Arms, for this newbie warrior at least.

[Forklift]

Source: Norrath Sweeping Strikes is irrelevant; Protection has Shockwave and Damage Shield (and potentially shield spikes). Who needs Rend? Most anything you fight will die too fast for Rend to tick to its full duration. Overpower is neat, but a) it implies you've just lost damage (you can only use it after a dodge or after one out of two parries, assuming you have the glyph), and b) due to said restriction, the entire Expertise skill actually lowers your damage output.

Sweeping strikes is NOT irrelevant. Recount shows (if I remember right) that Sweeping strikes does somewhere around 10% of overall damage, slightly lower than overpower.

I always pull two or three mobs at once and hit sweeping strikes right before overpower/slam. When SS is on cooldown, I'll just kill one mob at a time. Five or more mobs every five minutes is no problem at all--SS + Retaliation is more than enough.

As for "cannot kill things quickly..." That's a matter of interpretation. Perhaps it won't kill as fast as Arms, but it kills fast enough.

I mean, you quote me wrong and disagree with the wrong quotation. What are you playing at here? What I said was that Prot cannot kill things as quickly, which was a direct response to your saying that Prot can do "EVERYTHING" Arms can. No, it cannot--for example, killing things as quickly.

It's not about stance-dancing. Warbringer has three primary benefits: It causes Charge to break move-impairing effects (such as roots, slows; basically anything short of a stun), it lets you Charge while in combat (giving you a secondary interrupt as well as essentially free rage), and it lets you use Charge while in any stance. The last is without a doubt the least of these, even though it is still powerful. Warbringer is without a doubt the single most powerful talent in all three trees. The only drawback is that Charge has minimum range.

Did you suddenly think you were in a PVP discussion here? When does breaking snares or charging at distant enemies matter in leveling? You still have only ONE charge-type move per 15 seconds (since you cant intervene while leveling solo anyway), so it's not like charging in combat reduces the OVERALL time required to kill mobs. If you want to pull an additional mob while in combat, you'll still have to intercept or throw or something.

Let me repeat: Warbringer is great if you're already prot. If you're arms, it doesn't provide any benefit. Ergo, stop using it to compare prot to arms--it solves a problem that only exists if you're ALREADY prot.

It sounds to me as if you're knocking something you haven't tried. Protection levelling is definitely not less efficient. Even though you do less DPS, you can take far more mobs at once, even considering Sweeping Strikes and Bladestorm.

Since you don't even know how Rend procs Overpower for Arms, are you sure you're not calling the kettle black here?

[Arvandor]

Well, at level 26 fury is certainly the best leveling spec by far. I tried arms, and it just doesn't even compare. I'll stick with fury untill 40, then give prot a try, and maybe arms another shot.

[Forklift]

Arvandor, I would switch to Arms immediately after getting the Whirlwind Axe. I got it at 35, respecced Arms, and I went from dying multiple times per quest circuit in STV to completely dominating, pulling recklessly--frequently with <15% life.

I was standard Fury up until I switched to Arms, so I can't verify whether Arms is good before the WW axe, but I can't imagine it being bad; at the very least now that Rend has been buffed, getting Improved Rend, and wielding a decent 2H should make level 27 (Where you get 3/3 Taste for Blood) and up very viable.