[nethervoid]

Zul'Aman should have been a 15 or 20 man. With all the threads I see, the problem with most guilds going from Kara to Grull's or SSC is going from having enough geared for 10 mans (even two groups) and having enough for 25 mans. It's worse than going from 20 to 40. It's not really a problem with difficulty of encounter, but more in difficulty staffing to over double what you were running in Kara.

If I were a dev, it would have been a 15 or 20 man. Not sure which though. Probably a 15 man.

Agree? Disagree?

[veneretio]

Nah I disagree. Now that we are used to 10 it'll be a natural transition from kara teams into ZA teams.

[nethervoid]

Source: veneretio Nah I disagree. Now that we are used to 10 it'll be a natural transition from kara teams into ZA teams.

Right but then you have the problem still with the jump from 10 to 25 man. If you made ZA 15 or 20 man, you could put some middle ground in there.

[Becki]

Maybe because Blizz considers Zul'Aman the new end game for those guilds who are not able (for whatever reason) to do 25mans?

[nethervoid]

Yeah. It's the 10 man equiv of SSC right? I just figured they would want to bridge the gap, although maybe they don't consider it a problem. Or maybe they plan on doing something like that in Lich King? 10 to 20 to 30 or whatever.

[Brickhuase]

I dont think they want to neglect the people who cant do the larger raids again. Generaly the casual guilds cant do 25 mans and they could never do 40mans before BC. Something for everyone seems to be the reasoning.

[Marleigh]

1. They don't make 20 man raids anymore and they've never made 15 man raids. So I doubt they want to start tuning encounters for 4 different size raids.

2. They have only 1 10-man raid in the game and their research shows that Kara is consistently the most actively played instance in the game. Whereas they have what, 5 25-man raids?

3. There are a large number of casual guilds out there who still have difficulty maintaining a regular group of 25 players, and a 10-man instance is perfect for us.

If you ask me, they should build as many 10-man raids as they build 25-man raids.

[nethervoid]

Here's a question: If you can get equivalent gear in a ten man as you can a 25 man, why would you do the 25 man besides just seeing it one time? I think this is why they can't really make two seperate raid paths like that, with equivalent gear. The reward has to justify the risk.

[Brucimus]

What Risk?

The only Risk i see is the risk of my casual friendly guild becoming a bunch of leet pretentious gear whores

ZA is exactly what we wanted

[Urhan]

Source: Marleigh 1. They don't make 20 man raids anymore and they've never made 15 man raids.

Nitpick: UBRS was a 15-man raid at one point. But it was far too easy like that.

What I don't understand is why the caps always have to be multiples of 5. Would a 12- or 13-man limit really be such a bad thing? Yeah, so there's one partial group, but having the small raid be closer to half the size of the big one would make incorporating both into one guild's schedule easier.

[nethervoid]

Source: Brucimus What Risk? The only Risk i see is the risk of my casual friendly guild becoming a bunch of leet pretentious gear whores ZA is exactly what we wanted

Controlling a raid of 10 is easier than a raid of 25 is easier than a raid of 40 is easier than a raid of 72. When the raid gets bigger, the possibility of failure goes up.

*edit - Not to mention how much more work it takes to even field this many people.

[Anansi™]

My only issue with another 10 man is. We were able to grow into a 10 man and now into a 25 man raid and now we're faced with breaking down the 25 into two 10 man raids in what is for us untested content, even though I have pushed our GM to bring a group onto the PTR.

I'm not sure how I can keep 20-25 people happy if and when group a (or b) passes content wise group b (or a.) When we split kara into two groups we had enough of this I really didn't want to have to go through it again, but when you have 7-9 of the 25 who are significantly better players which ever group has the more of them will generally get through faster and easier.

[Aromit]

It's a welcomed change. ZA loot is more geared towards people who can't get their main-spec gear UNTIL 25 mans.

Ie; Fury Warriors and Protection Paladins.

Also, getting 25 organized, geared, and non-idiotic players together on some servers is impossible unless you 'know' people, or do a bit of brown-nosing.