[Maloch]

Well I'm finally tired of trying to make protection work in arenas, so now I'm turning to the tried and true Arms spec, but I have a gemming question. Right now I've got a ton of strength slotted (BS/JC), as well as the Axe of Ruin. my guild doesn't run 25 mans, and there's no chance of me going to Naxx to grab Grim Toll. So with those specifications in mind, is there a point where ArP is still better than strength to slot? I can easily aquire the epic gems to make the change, but I want to be sure it's the right decision ahead of time. I'm generally Mr. Tank so I haven't been following the current ArP discussions and only vaguely are aware ArP got somehow nerfed last patch. I'm just tired of losing arenas and want to get some actual rating

TLDR version: ArP worth slotting if you can't get Grim Toll for PvP?

[kpxneophyte]

Well, if you REALLY want Armor penetration, you could always grab the Banner of Victory - Item - World of Warcraft. It's no grim toll, but it'll do as an arm pen trinket.

Also, if I recall correctly, armor penetration doesn't really take into effect 100% of the time. That is to say, if you had 25% armor penetration, then your physical attacks can will ignore UP TO 25% armor. Therefore, if your target had 10000 armor, then your physical attacks will deal damage as if your target had 7500-10000 armor. Lastly, the coefficients been reduced to 12%.

In my opnion, armor penetration isn't really worth it. If you had 5 red sockets, would you have either 8.1% armor ignore (100 armor penetration) or 100 str (which is buffable through kings/sanct)?

[Rhyseh]

ArP is an excellent PVE stat and is worth gemming in certain situations. ArP is a good PVP stat, however it is not advisable to seek it and ignore other stats like you will see happen in PVE. One of the key things you will have to remember in arena is that it's all about survivability and damage output and in certain cases one will hold higher value than others.

There are no concrete ways you should gear in PvP, however you should keep in mind that you need to balance both survival and damage output in order to be successful. To directly answer your question, in a PvP situation I feel there are better trinkets on offer and ArP, although good, will rarely be good enough to outweigh the other stats.

[Tanksforus]

Ive been trying to work this out for myself.
But as alot of people have let me know.
If u cant get grim toll or runestone, stick with stacking strengh

[koebes]

Source: Tanksforus Ive been trying to work this out for myself. But as alot of people have let me know. If u cant get grim toll or runestone, stick with stacking strengh

i dont understand why arp stacking in pvp/arena only makes sense when you have an arp trinket. thats what a lot people say...
i think its wrong.
i advise you to gem arp/str and also crit (but less) in a mixture

[Demiwraith]

Its because the trinkets allow you to reach 90-100% armor reduction when they proc, which they do alot and in those 10secs (or w/e time length it is) your god like doing pretty much double damage, also the fact that after a certain point i think its somewhere between 30-40% from gear each stat point of arp gives more than the point before.

Essentially this can also be applied to Arms Pve warriors aswell.

[Destruyen]

i stack mostly arp in my pvp gear, and i used grim toll no matter what in areas/bgs. now with the added hit from the new pvp cloak and ring (upgraded from my furious hit cloak and deadly hit ring) i can lose grim toll for the runestone and stay hit capped.

if you dont have grim toll or a runestone, stick to str for arenas/bgs. the magic of arp gemming in pvp gear is that an arp trinket gives you the 100% cap on proc, giving you huge burst potential.

[koebes]

Source: Demiwraith also the fact that after a certain point i think its somewhere between 30-40% from gear each stat point of arp gives more than the point before. .

this is what i dont understand.. could you explain it please ^^?

i dont doubt that arp trinket gives massvie dps boost for 10 seconds, preconditioned your are not cc'ed. well timed cc can make arp trinket from godlike to

[Squeegiemama]

Source: koebes i dont doubt that arp trinket gives massvie dps boost for 10 seconds, preconditioned your are not cc'ed. well timed cc can make arp trinket from godlike to

Why gear at all then, crowd control makes your entire gearset useless doesn't it?

The fact of the matter is you dont gear for being crowd controlled, you gear for the times you aren't.

[koebes]

Source: Squeegiemama Why gear at all then, crowd control makes your entire gearset useless doesn't it? The fact of the matter is you dont gear for being crowd controlled, you gear for the times you aren't.

me for example switched from runestone to new pvp trinkt (128 crit/ 5k hp on use) which can also be helpfull when cc'd.
or you could take a trinket which gives ap on use, which you could use when you are sure you wont get cc'd next 10 seconds.

i say: gemming ARP doesnt NOT require an arp trinket as most people say. its simply wrong.

[Demiwraith]

But since when did anything in Wow make sense or be right?

You may not like it but if your min/maxing your dps/damage output/utility then quite simply if u dont have the trinket about 40% arp is the soft cap and can easily be obtained passively on gear at least pve gear it can.
And you should just gem str though if ur on say 30% passive with no trinket one should gem a mix of str and arp.

At end of the day if you are playing arena at the level where the enemy is intelligent enough to pop cc on you when you have a certain proc, then you are most likely either not doign enough to avoid prior cc or are in a comp that should have counters to cc.

On use effects are nice but you have to remember to use them or have them macroed in and risk using them at wrg moments + u can still get cc once you pop them and be worse off due to cd's

The Warrior is build very much around RNG effects jsut look at TBC with Mace stun and Lolherald sometimes u stunned the target from 100% - 0% others u didnt get any procs at all, but you till went with it just for that odd moment it procced.

[Tanksforus]

I did a test with a holy pally mate last night, first i took him on all strengh gemmed, and then i regemmed to all ARP had 40% arp without grim toll.
I was hitting him softer, So yes strengh > arp if u dont have arp trinket

[Stymie]

There is a huge divide on this on Arena Junkies and other sites. A lot of people are saying "ArPen is better no matter what, in any scenario, with or without trinket, with any weapon spec!" And they say "Because Landsoul said so" on EJ. But you look at a lot of the top warriors rated up around 2700, and many are full gemming Strength.

I think ArPen works well on paper, but I myself gem full Strength. One thing people tend to forget is that gemming Strength tends to lend to REALLY strong bleeds. Getting rend up on multiple targets w/ Glyph of Rending and deep wounds on multiple targets (due to SS, Bladestorm, whatever) ticking for up to 1300 is really, really good. Yes, arena is about burst, but getting heavy bleed damage up on multiple targets also always you to set up better target swaps. Also, I personally am not a fan of wearing PVE gear to get ArPen, especially with the rise of casters this season (and next, looks like).

The reality is, warriors are finding equal success with ArPen gemming, Strength gemming, Sword spec, Axe spec, Mace spec, PVE gear, PVP gear -- any mix of those. If people are hitting glad range with every combo of gear, weapon, and gemming choice, someone can't really tell you one or the other is "wrong".

[Maloch]

Thanks for all the replies!

Looks like the field's truly divided over this one. In lieu of any personal knowledge to the contrary and based on the many excellent replies here I'll likely keep the strength gems until we start doing hard mode 10 mans and I get access to the Runestone.

Of course, the above assumes I don't give in to the temptation to respec back to PvProt instead ... I miss that unparalleled mobility :P

[Destruyen]

Source: Maloch until we start doing hard mode 10 mans and I get access to the Runestone.

dont forget grim toll, it gives you about half the hit needed to reach the pvp hit cap.

i have to wear the triumph badge ring, the relent. hit ring, and the relent. hit cloak along with 2x 10str/10hit gems to reach the hit cap with runestone. with grim toll i only needed the cloak and ring.

[Nyluh]

So many wrong answers in this thread I don't even want to begin. Go to arenajunkies dot com and just read for 10 minutes if you want answers to these sort of questions.

Myself I use 2x t9.5 (shoulders and chest) 3 pvp mainpieces, pve bracers, grim toll. Gem arp until softcap (100% with GT proc).

With axe my ub stats are atm 4020 ap 31.7 crit 57% arp(100%GT) 750 resilience 29.8 hp. Killing stuff becomes so much easyer with arpmor pen as you can just wait for the GT proc (get an addon to tell you when you get it procced, with a sound or whatever msbt can do this for you) and bladestorm to victory. Works 63% of the time in my 3v3.

[Destruyen]

Source: Nyluh So many wrong answers in this thread I don't even want to begin. Go to arenajunkies dot com....

ive read alot of warrior posts on arenajunkies and alot of their math is wrong/flawed. most of them cant even do their own math, i can quote alot of them saying "if we can get a geek to run the math for this...".

you dont need to wear alot of pve gear like you are to hit 100% arp. i can get 29% crit, 53% arp pre-proc (exactly 100% with proc), 742 resil, 30.6k hp and over 4100ap only using a runestone, t9.25 chest, and the badge ring as pve pieces.

if you read the original post though saying if you dont have an arp trinket, should he still gem arp. the answer is no. arp is best when you get a trinket proc and put enormous pressure during those 10 seconds. without the proc your better just gemming str since you will put out more pressure than only having 30-40% arp from gear/gems/stance 100% of the time.

[Yarock]

I think the main advantage to str gemming is you don't need to wear PvE gear and your survivability goes way up. Most ArP warriors are wearing at a minimum 2 piece t9.5 and sit around 800 resil. Str warriors will be closer to 1000 resil and have slightly more health as well. I think you'll find that these 2700-2800 rated warriors are going to do well even if they gem pure stamina. Their gear didn't carry them there - their timing, partners and knowledge of every other classes abilities/cooldowns did.

[loker]

Source: koebes me for example switched from runestone to new pvp trinkt (128 crit/ 5k hp on use) which can also be helpfull when cc'd. or you could take a trinket which gives ap on use, which you could use when you are sure you wont get cc'd next 10 seconds. i say: gemming ARP doesnt NOT require an arp trinket as most people say. its simply wrong.

Doesnt is = Does not. Therefor you cant say Doesnt NOT... it wud be like saying : I does not want to go there.. wich.. is quite stupid.

[Yarock]

Source: loker Doesnt is = Does not. Therefor you cant say Doesnt NOT... it wud be like saying : I does not want to go there.. wich.. is quite stupid.

thx for the pro english tip