[Tumo]

Me and my mates is stuck on faction champions.
Our problem is simple yet complicated (for us), we don't know what to kill first.

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The combination of champions we are stuck with is:
Resto Shamman
Holy Priest
Rogue
Warlock
Retri pala
Boomer

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Our team consists of:
Feral tank
DK tank
Resto druid
Mage
Retri pala
Holy pala
Hunter
Rogue
Warlock
Elemental Shammy


Looking forward for advice.

[Lulia]

Pop heroism and burn the Resto Shaman, put your Rogue on the Priest and have them keep the Priest locked down. Burn down the Rogue or Warlock after the Shaman, whichever gives you the most problems. Burn down the Priest and finish off of the rest of the DPS.

I would suggest burning down the Warlock second, then the Priest. The Rogue can be managed by your DK with things like chains of ice and smart raid members who are aware. Not sure what your feral tank can do, I suppose they could just dps? Use your Paladin's stuns and any other interrupts the dps might have to make sure the Resto Shaman gets off as few heals as possible, you want it burned down ASAP so that you can move on.

[Xianth]

Source: Lulia I would suggest burning down the Warlock second

I'd personally say rogue or pala second, the warlock can be annoying but presents little threat as he like to run to places and spam his hellfire so as long as people are aware of him then they shouldn't have to worry much. rogue can be CCd to an extent but he can shadow step and vanish all over the place, appearing behind a healer or squishy dps.

[Thulldar]

The priest is the easiest healer to kill, and harder to shut down than the shaman with his prayers of mending, power word: shield, and renew.

The rogue is the most dangerous of the DPS you listed.

I would kill the priest, followed by the rogue. I would put your rogue on the shaman for interrupts, and be sure your ele shaman is purging earthshields placed on the DPS target. Also you can have your mage spamming spellsteal.

Put your DK tank on the rogue, have him do death grip -> chains of ice. He should save death grip for when the rogue uses shadow step.
Have your feral tank go DPS or heals; a bear is pretty worthless for this fight on heroic.
Have your mage and warlock chain fears and polymorphs on their moonkin and warlock, respectively.
Make sure your hunter is providing aimed shot for the reduced healing debuff.
Once the rogue dies, your DK tank can switch to doing grips -> chains on the ret paladin.

I would kill the shaman healer 3rd, and at that point, the fight is won. Good luck.

[Tumo]

Thanks for all the feedback, and please keep it comming.

[Haur]

Forums are full of threads saying same thing but lets go over again:

- priest has less hp then shaman, so you want to kill it first
- keep heal debuff on whatever you are killing
- one person in raid need to faceroll purge on skull really hard until healers dead (grats your shammy, his dps will suck but it doesnt matter)
- slow them (trap, also shaman is ele so his earthbind will grip everyone when put down)
- spread them (dk grips skull away, shaman kicks rest to other direction, hunter drops down trap to slow them, when they reach you priest is dead)
- move them from totem, but if you managed to spread and slow its done, heal totem heals a lot
- survive fight, if rogue is beating on someone bop them, slow him, stun him, also people need to move, dont expect your healers to outheal their damage
- kill rogue second, he is more or less only one that can hurt you

Feral should go bear, to do some big damage soaking while spamming swipe, they have some aggro and he will manage to "tank" them for a short time now and then, also aoe makes their healers heal around instead of focusing on your burn target.

[Fledern]

This has been discussed several times. I'll repeat what we do.

* Always kill the shaman first, whatever spec he his. He's just too powerful as a healer and extremely dangerous as dps. Burn your heroism on him. It helps if somebody is clearing the totems but not necessary

* Purge your kill target like mad. I mean really like mad.

* Kill the most dangerous dps next. If you're cloth heavy, that'd be the warrior, if you're melee heavy it'd be the warlock, if you're balanced, it'd be the retri pala or the hunter. Have your dk try to be a nuisance on that target till the shammy is down. Going after cloth seems to be a pretty common urge. You want to stay alive first though so go for whoever is killing you, not who will die easiest.

* Put somebody on the priest/pala healer if there's one. Druid is pretty much ignorable as healer (purge ftw) Putting one of your tanks instead of your rogue would be better imo (i'd have the bear in your case). As long as you can interrupt half the cast heals (the hots get purged, remember), you should be fine if you leave him last.

* Have your dk tank put on resilience/dps gear and dps in frost presence. Due to the way DKs operate he can tank & dps beautifully with such a gear setup.

* Dont forget to have your hunter/rogue keep up healing debuffs on your burn target.

* If anybody (especially tanks) feel they dont have any decent thing to do, they should go after pets. Pets are tauntable (only for a short period) and they are heal targets. Even a tiny bit of dps on them will make their healers waste heals on the pets rather than the npcs.

This is ofc a more general guide than one specific to the setup you specified.

[Belicia]

I'm just posting to reemphasize one point: kill the shaman first. Healing Stream Totems put out a ton of healing, and other totems can be rather annoying.

Dispelling of players/enemies is also key. I usually go ret and dps our first target and then just dispell for the rest of the fight.

(we keep a rogue on the pally and ignore her until the end, and a warlock on the tree and ignore her until the end)

[maddfez]

The best way to control a melee, that we've found, is with a druid - whatever spec. Cyclone x 3 --> roots x 3, repeat. If he's feral he can feral charge / bash if the rogue gets loose from CC early, if he's moonkin he has better range to CC more safely and can help do a little dps. Other classes certainly can do the job too.

Whoever is on CC duty for the melee mobs, make it clear to them that their #1 job is to keep those guys out of the fight and turn it into a 4 on 8 fight instead of 6 on 10. If they do zero dps to the kill target but keep their mob locked down...that's just fine.

Also, I'd recommend killing the shaman with rogue responsible for interrupts on him, and your shaman and mage dpsing / purging the shaman while using focus macros to stop the priest's heals.

[Endléss]

My guild is having the same issue on faction champs, with the exact same boss comp. The only thing I can think of is our raid comp sucks.

We're running it this week with:

Warlock x2
Warrior x2
Paladin x2 (heals)
Druid (Boomkin)
Druid (heals)
Mage
DK

Not having Heroism, Purge or mass dispell I think is really kicking our butts. Also, raid leader seems to think killing the Ret Paladin first is the best idea. Any thoughts?

[Posolutely]

Don't kill the ret paladin first?

He's actually one of the weakest and easily kitable. Warrior tanks should be able to easily kite around 1 melee -- looking at my 10 man logs, I can usually get the primary melee to do 50%+ of his damage to me, and remember, I'm in tank gear so I'm taking way less per hit than others -- or completely lockdown a healer.

Without mass dispel or purge, the shaman really has to die fast. The tree druid (if there is one) needs to die as well.

[Xianth]

Source: Endléss My guild is having the same issue on faction champs, with the exact same boss comp. The only thing I can think of is our raid comp sucks. We're running it this week with: Warlock x2 Warrior x2 Paladin x2 (heals) Druid (Boomkin) Druid (heals) Mage DK Not having Heroism, Purge or mass dispell I think is really kicking our butts. Also, raid leader seems to think killing the Ret Paladin first is the best idea. Any thoughts?

Get your warlocks to use their fel hunters to eat magic as a substitute for purge. It's not great but it'll still remove bop or any other vital dispells.

[robbon]

in heroic mode the adds are taunt immune (or at least the ret pally is) so using a prot warrior to kite is really quite hard.

We found it much easier to have :

1) Lock banish + fear + deathcoil on Resto druid.

2) Burn heroism and all nuke the shaman

3) Have a mage spellsteal / counterspell the warlock

4) Rogue lock down the holy/shadow prst then nuke shaman/kill target

5) DK can chain of ice + dg the ret pally

6) Druids / shaman can kite the warrior

7) mages can sheep/slow/nova the rogue/hunter

8) Shammy can polymorph rogue/hunter

9) keep purges up, keep locks pet on casters, keep spell reflect up, use healthstones, aura mastery and mass dispells.

Kill order i would suggest =

Resto Shamman - NUKE
Holy Priest - stun/blind/shield bash/stun/ concussion blow/ spell reflect
Rogue - sheep / cyclone NUKE second
Warlock -counterspell - NUKE third
Retri pala -DK kite using DG+CoI
Boomer - cyclone if available or repentence


Kill order - Resto shammy, Rogue, Warlock or Boomkin(whoever is being the biggest pain in the butt - if both ok then kill prst) Holy Prst, Ret pally.

[Lulia]

I should point out that I suggested the Warlock because the Rogue can easily be CCed to be a 4th target. It does require that everyone be aware though, because he can jump around. But every class has a quick escape mechanism they can use and they should be using them. The Warlock's curses hurt and combined with another dps on one target can really quickly become a huge threat. That and the stupid hellfire he has which would be awesome if actual Warlocks got it.

[Darchigh]

I don't know what we're doing wrong... in the normal version we do this encounter just like any other 1st try ... but heroic sometimes we KEEP on wiping and wiping and wiping.
Example:
Setup:
Resto Druid, Heal Priest, Warlock w Pet, Enh. Shaman , Rogue, Mage

Our setup:
Disc Priest, Boomkin, Ele Shammy, Resto Druid, Frostmage, Holy Pala, Tankadin, Feral druid, blood dk, fury warrior.

We try to burn down the Priest Asap, then rogue then shammy while constantly dispelling hots.

Sometimes we manage to even get both healers down, but the rogue un shammy keep killing our healers INSTANTLY.
Today we wiped 18x until we gave up. Is this just so much rng or are we really that bad? We managed to get the protodrake in ulduar etc so we're reeeeeally feeling miserable bout this.
appreciate any advices etc

[Xianth]

The fight depends a lot on every member of the raid understanding all of their abilities, not just the DPS/healing ones. It's all about control and damage limitation while slowly picking off the opposition. Even if you only have a few weaker links, maybe even people who are great at DPSing or healing in PvE, it can cause you problems because there's a whole lot of CC/interupts/defensives not being used. I'd say the fight has only been more of a culture shock in that any form of CC has not been needed this expansion so a lot of people have forgotten how to use it properly.

BTW: i'd kill the rogue first in your example setup or failing that, at least go for the enhance shammy. If you keep failing cause you're healers are dying then you need to deal with the threat to them.

[Lulia]

Burn the resto druid down first, it has instant heals that can't be locked down efficiently. Keep your Warrior locking down the priest while you burn them down. Then kill the Rogue or Warlock second, whichever is killing more people, then the Priest, etc...

[Darlip]

We have narrowed down one tactic that works on every setup our guild has faced had the last 2 months. We also struggled on this encounter and used most of our tries trying different combinations, but since I implemented this tactic we haven't wiped a single time.

Killorder is always:

DPS Melee -> Healer1 -> DPS Melee2 -> Healer2 -> Casters -> Pets

We use one tank, me a prot warr, that locks down Healer2 while the raid burns down the first DPS (with hero/bl if we have it)

A healing debuff on the killtarget helps if DPS is not on par.

All hunters should really have the point in aimed shot no matter what spec they have imo.

Pets ARE tauntable, If we get pets in the setup I use a tauntmacro do pull them off the raid whenever I can, due to DR on taunt. This helps combating the Spell Lock done by the Felhunter for example.

/target "pets name"
/cast Taunt
/targetlasttarget

When my healer (2nd) is dead I keep my self busy interrupting the remaining casters and keep taunt up on the pet.

I usually let CC be FFA, but if we have a druid healer among the champs and we have a lock then the lock has to banish him from start.

Dispelling needs to be on par, if done right this fight will be a very short one.


Our raidset up varies but usually it look something like this for the champs:

Tank, protection warrior
Ret Paly
Fury Warrior x2 or 1 Arms warrior depending on the OTs offspec
Ret Pally
Feral Druid
MM Hunter
Destruction Warlock
Disc Priest
Enhancement Shammy or Resto Druid

With the setup you were facing I would lock down the shammy, have hunters mark up on the rogue while burning the ret pally with hero/bl, then kill the priest which has pretty low hp, then rogue, Shammy, Lock and Boomkin last.

Hope this helps, good luck!

[Sinister6]

actually..we pop bloodlust to kill a shaman first no matter hes a heal or enhance. after that always a melee dps. a healer at 3rd (pal and priest) and melee again before switching to ranged dps.
ranged dps is a joke. its the melees who kills you 90% of the time..

and you have to CC at least 2 (or 3 sometimes), assign a warrior on pal, a DK on rog, a rog for a healer, a lock for a tree.. etcetc..

[Martie]

I think you are going about it all wrong.

The fight isn't about kill order, it's about control.

Control their melee by kiting, tanking or crowd controlling them.
Control their healers by directing their heals (keep their pets damaged), interrupting their spells and out-dpsing/purging heals.
Control their casters ranged by silences, crowd control and outhealing.

Do those things, and you've won.
Don't do those, and you'll lose.