[Meeks]

Source: minicredwink My main is a holy pally I've raided almost all content and no offense I don't know how a pally is getting beat out by a holy priest. The only healers that ever get close to beating my out of meters (even if they don't always tell the truth.) are Disc. priest. But, you should really just have them learn to scared shield the tank they are healing, beacon the other and flash for the HoT then they should either FoL and if need be HL. The big thing with pally I've met others that spec and mainly go for haste aka for depending mainly on FoL. Other like myself have spec'd for crit and FoL and then get major crits if they go lower than 80% or so. Also someone in the guild that has some knowledge or have the pallys themselves research a little on what they should go for depending on how they spec'd. If any questions are pondered apon feel free to private message or email me. Minicredwink-Stormreaver

Looking at your achievements the farthest you have gone is parts of ulduar 10, and no hard modes.

The picture changes rapidly when you get into hard modes and 25 mans. If you are the only holy paladin in the raid you will do very well on healing meters regardless of the content but disc priests are pretty much the only class that should never beat you.

Druids dominate the meters on a lot of encounters and holy priests and shamans can pass you, especially if there are 2 holy paladins.

Again this changes wildly depending on encounter, raid set-up, assignments and so forth. But still, you should always beat the disc priest as so much of their 'healing' is shields that do not get counted.

[Deepmaur]

just a small comment about gear. I only heal 10mans with my pally, but I find the presence of Mp5 on healing plate so frustrating that I have taken to using boomkin gear and even some cloth/mail items for haste, crit and sp itemization. I never go OOM and can cope with raid healing or tank healing assigns. I have mostly tank healed from naxx-uld-toc with either druid + shammy or disc priest + shammy. We are usually pretty equal on the healing meters (taking into account absorbs). Here's my armory link

[Odene]

That's interesting, because I've found mp5 of enough use for hardmodes to start using mp5 flask/food, and sometimes mp5 trinket. Not for normal modes obviously, hell I did normal toc10 wearing my chefs hat last night.

[Shapally]

Source: Meeks Why would you ever use shock on cooldown let alone glyph for it! It is by far out worst spell. Its only use is that it is instant cast so can be used while on the move or if you do not have time to get a cast off for some reason. Why would you use a terrible, inefficient heal on cool down so when a situation comes that you actually need it you are screwed. It is ok to use it a lot on some encounters but if you are using it only because it is ready then you are hurting yourself.

I completely disagree. And btw, I am always at the top of the meters (1 or 2) and we run 10's, 25's and hard modes. Holy shock is extremely useful. Here is how I make use of it:

Beacon a tank, SS and FoL other tank and as long as tank isn't taking a massive amount of damage, I can heal the raid as well. I use holy shock for clothies that are in trouble, because it takes one instant heal and they're back to full health and I can move on to healing someone else. I also use it in conjuction with Divine Favor because it gives me two instant casts immediately (HS and FoL). I also sometimes use it on myself to make sure I stay alive, and again not waste a lot of time healing with a casted spell. Furthermore, it seems to crit a ton!

Also, I'd like to add to the original poster that the addon BeaconCountdown is awesome. It will provide a countdown timer on your screen when BoL and SS have 10 secs remaining on their debuff so you can reapply it. This saves a ton of mana imo because you aren't reapplying it too early therefore wasting who knows how much mana throughout a fight. It also serves as a good reminder

[Norako]

Alright, I agree and disagree with some of the comments above. It seems everyone that commented uses HL aas their main source of heals. I'm on the opposite end. I never use Holy Light! I put all my chants and gems into Spell power, Haste, and Crit. Right now I have 2431 bonus heals totally unbuffed, and I gotta say that I have only been outhealed by one other pally and he uses the same method. I make sure to keep my BoL and Sacred shield on whatever tank I'm healing at all times, then I spam FoL on the rest of the raid. As for Holy Shock, I use that every chance I get (unless I know a lot of damage is going to be delt in the next few seconds, then I save it). My shock crits for 10k which gives me an instant FoL which crits for 7k. I also have a set bonus that places a HoT on the target whenever my HS crits. I never put a whole lot of stock in HPS just because there are so many other ways a healer can be helping the raid from taking damage, but I'm usually around 3 to 4k. I also like my setup because its so useful for 5 mans as well. I can throw a lot of heals in a short amount of time, whereas, if I spammed HL it would take forever, and people die fast sometimes.

As for glyphs, I have the Seal of Light, FoL, and Divinity. I find the Divinity to help with mana as well. When I'm getting low in the longer boss fights, I cast LoH on someone who needs it and I get some more mana to use. On top of all this, I put points in Judgements of Pure and I cast it on an enemy whenever I can for the 15% increased casting speed. My spec is 65/5/1. This entire method has been learned the hard way, with a lot of blood, sweat, and tears. Whenever I find a pally that can outheal me, I check to see how they did it, but this is extreemly rare.

I'm not trying to say that just using HL is bad. On the contrary, if you're speced for that, then use it. I'm just showing that there is more than one way to heal with a pally effectively.

[Odene]

I don't use holy shock on cooldown, but I will use it on raid members that get low, to try and assist raid members. I'll also use it on myself if I'm taken damage while moving to avoid something.

Source: Shapally Also, I'd like to add to the original poster that the addon BeaconCountdown is awesome. It will provide a countdown timer on your screen when BoL and SS have 10 secs remaining on their debuff so you can reapply it. This saves a ton of mana imo because you aren't reapplying it too early therefore wasting who knows how much mana throughout a fight. It also serves as a good reminder

I use this mod also, and do rather like how it's completely invisible until my beacon/shield are nearing the end of the duration. It doesn't track who you cast it on, but this is easy enough to keep track of anyway.

Source: Norako I never use Holy Light!

This is bad! You're completely ignoring one of a paladins main healing spells! It's like a shaman never using chain heal, or a resto druid never using rejuv. It might work for you, but you're not using your class to it's full potential.

Source: Norako I put all my chants and gems into Spell power, Haste, and Crit. Right now I have 2431 bonus heals totally unbuffed, and I gotta say that I have only been outhealed by one other pally and he uses the same method.

I have 2563sp unbuffed, and my only sp gems are the sp/int ones I'm using to gain socket bonuses. Everything else is pure int. All but 3 pieces of my gear are obtainable from 10/25 normal modes too. (2 pieces from 25 togc, 1 piece from heroic fl in ulduar.)

Source: Norako My shock crits for 10k which gives me an instant FoL which crits for 7k.

When my holy light can crit for 18k+ on a 1.4s cast (with jotp and lights grace up) those kind of pale by comparison. I had a fol crit for 10k the other day too, which was pretty awesome. I had an ele shaman in the group and I think one of my +sp trinkets was up.

Source: Norako I never put a whole lot of stock in HPS just because there are so many other ways a healer can be helping the raid from taking damage, but I'm usually around 3 to 4k.

What are you going to do when your tank starts taking more damage than than you can heal? If you don't use holy light you won't be able to keep him/her up.

Source: Norako I also like my setup because its so useful for 5 mans as well. I can throw a lot of heals in a short amount of time, whereas, if I spammed HL it would take forever, and people die fast sometimes.

These days I never use holy light in 5 mans either, given the abundance of epics even fresh 80s soon outgear heroics and make holy light a waste of time.

Source: Norako On top of all this, I put points in Judgements of Pure and I cast it on an enemy whenever I can for the 15% increased casting speed. My spec is 65/5/1.

I'm assuming this is you, (if not my bad) so why no enlightened judgements? As it is you have to run into melee range to judge, which can be dangerous. Being able to judge at range is much safer. You are also specced into Light's Grace, which only effects Holy Light, which you say is a spell you don't use. Seems rather contradictory to me.

Source: Norako I'm not trying to say that just using HL is bad. On the contrary, if you're speced for that, then use it. I'm just showing that there is more than one way to heal with a pally effectively.

I wouldn't call completely ignoring one of our biggest healing spells effective. I'd link to the EJ thread with all the info about stats etc, but it hasn't been updated since april and there doesn't seem to be a new one.

[Norako]

Wow Odene, you really liked my post I see . You claim HL is the main heal a pally has, I disagree, obviously. I shouldn't say I never use it, because sometimes I will when other healers go down in a raid; that's why I have Light's Grace. I've thought about respecing back into Enlightened Judgements bacause of what you stated. (When I was a lesser geared 80, I often times accidentally pulled other mobs because of the range, and thats was bad for me, the healer) It just seems like you're the one wasting some a pallys true potential. True HL will keep it so your tank never dies, but the overhealing that comes with this is beyond rediculous. A complete waste of mana and heals. I've never had a problem with keeping my tank up. In fact, I've had to keep several up at once on a few occasions (that's where HL comes into play). I tend to do a lot of raid healing during the fights if I can, so as long as my tank has BoL and Sacred Shield on him, I don't have a problem.

I couldn't find you character so I don't know how exactly you're speced/geared, but it seems like what you do works for you. What I do works for me, and I think thats what it comes down to. I'm not totally against criticism, though. If I see a Pally that can consitantly outheal me without doing insane amounts on the overhealing (I realize that pallys always do overhealing), then I check out what they are doing differently. I have healed with people that do the same thing as you and dont pull anything near me, so I have thus concluded my healing strategy is fine. If I started using HL all the time, I would need to change my chants and gems around, something I'm not going to do. I will, however, respec a little to get Enlightened Judgements again since I am much more experienced now and won't accidentally pull every mob in the room, by mistargeting.

[Norako]

Alright I did find your toon Odene, and just like I thought you are WAY better geared than me. explains a lot And I kind of like some of your specing. I might have to check into that myself. (like I siad, I'm not against changing things if it will help me)

[Meeks]

Source: Norako If I see a Pally that can consitantly outheal me without doing insane amounts on the overhealing (I realize that pallys always do overhealing), then I check out what they are doing differently. I have healed with people that do the same thing as you and dont pull anything near me, so I have thus concluded my healing strategy is fine. If I started using HL all the time, I would need to change my chants and gems around, something I'm not going to do. I will, however, respec a little to get Enlightened Judgements again since I am much more experienced now and won't accidentally pull every mob in the room, by mistargeting.

Overhealing does not matter at all...even a little. In fact as long as you ended the fight without going oom and your assignments are alive overhealing is a healthy sign that you are staying on top of things and not trying to heal reactively.

You are taking a weakness of the fol spec and thinking of it as a strength.

[Norako]

Source: Meeks Overhealing does not matter at all...even a little. In fact as long as you ended the fight without going oom and your assignments are alive overhealing is a healthy sign that you are staying on top of things and not trying to heal reactively. You are taking a weakness of the fol spec and thinking of it as a strength.

Hmm. I seem to have stepped on your toes a little bit. I must say the fact that you don't think overhealing matters concerns me. Any Pally can go in guns ablazin'--just firing away with HL and come out top heals, but who your healing and what your doing with those heals is extreemly important! I've seen your gear and your achievments so I assume you know what your doing, and judging by your somewhat condesending attitude, you're very confident in your healing abilities....but so am I. I have raided quite a bit myself, both 10 and 25 mans (Though not quite to the extent as you--props for that ), and have lead many of those raids. Time and time again my heals have risen to the occassion, so please don't mistake YOUR weeknesses for mine. I KNOW I can heal well, and have done it through some tough fights (as I'm sure you have as well). I am meerly showing the opposite side of the same coin. If I had the time and the gold to waste, I would try out your way of healing to see for myself, but I don't. Nor have I met any Pallys on my server that use your method and beat my heals, so I have little motivation to actually change my approach because my way does work very well for me.

In no way am I saying your way doesn't work!! I never said that at all, yet you are all quick to say mine doesn't work....which leads me to believe that I'm not the one being close-minded. If I ever meet a Pally the does what you do, Meeks, and I can better compare the results and conclude that I am, in fact, totally in the wrong, I will switch. 'Till then, I will continue to improve my method and what works for me and my raiders.

This is my last post. Anything else I might have to say would be a waste of breath, so go ahead and blast me 'till you feel better .

[Meeks]

Your passive-aggressive post makes absolutely no sense. Instead of responding to me you attacked me? Not sure why you felt the need to make it personal. I think you are identifying yourself with your avatar a little too much as I never said anything about you.

Overhealing does not matter at all. Between HL crits and beacon there is a substantial amount of overhealing, especially if there are 2+ paladins in the raid. Plus the HL glyph provides a ton of overhealing as well. As long as you are getting the job done overhealing is meaningless.

FoL spec has its own strengths and weaknesses as does HoL. All I was saying is that over healing has nothing to do with a strength. It is merely a symptom of the fact that fol spam has less throughput and does not have glyph of holy light, which is a large amount of overhealing.

To say fol is better because it has less overhealing does not make much sense as the two builds are fundamentally different in that regard. There are much better ways to compare the two.

[Odene]

Source: Norako True HL will keep it so your tank never dies, but the overhealing that comes with this is beyond rediculous. A complete waste of mana and heals.

As Meeks said, overhealing is never a waste if your heal assignment is alive, you haven't gone oom, and the boss is dead.

Better to overheal than risk not healing enough.

Source: Norako Any Pally can go in guns ablazin'--just firing away with HL and come out top heals, but who your healing and what your doing with those heals is extreemly important!

No-one said that isn't true, however being at the top of the healing metre isn't very important. I barely even look at mine, what's far more important is keeping doing my part to help kill the boss.

[Norako]

I apolgize. I know I got a little over aggressive. I have been working long hours and I let it translate into this discussion. I see your points and I failed to mention that your are right in reguards to overhealing. I myself have preached that overhealing doesn't matter as long as your healing assignments are alive at the end and you don't go OOM. I can't spam HL because of the fact that I would go OOM. I'm not speced for it. I don't believe I ever said that my way was the better way, but I'm sorry if you got that impression. Both have their pro's and con's. I felt like you downplayed my method earlier and just wanted to show why I do it that way. I will try to be more professional about it in the future.

[Mouria]

Is it normal for shamans to beat holy pallies on healing meters?

[Davout]

Source: Mouria Is it normal for shamans to beat holy pallies on healing meters?

Depends on the fight and assignment. If you only have 2 tanks taking damage, a paladin should be pretty high up there, but once more targets get involved, it becomes less suited to keeping up with the damage. Do you have a specific fight in mind?

[Fishz]

Holy Light has the highest possible hps output in the game. Raid buffed a single holy light can yield 50k+ healing (beacon + glyph), and in most cases in less than 1.5 seconds (1.2 raid buffed @ 880 haste). Flashes even with the build will only yield 20k healing w/ regard to beacon every 1s.

Healing an encounter is rather straightforward in that there will never be too much damage to handle based upon what skills we have. It us up to the players to acknowledge their own respective class' strengths and respond accordingly with their maximum potential. In higher end encounters, damage must be effectively healed through in a timely manner. An example of this would be icehowl hardmode - if his freezing breath catches 2 or even 3 healers - it is up to the other non-frozen healers to pick up the slack before massive crash destroys your raid. This is only one example where Flash of Light would not suffice regardless of your charge for "style"; required raid healing per second is observed although not quite defined as it is variable in both time-of-arrival and extremity.

[Granim]

Norako, its not that FOL spec doesnt work.
its that in the "worst case scenario" a fol build brings less to the raid then a HL build does.
Fol build will work awesome for easy content, and will pad your meters nicely in easy content because u land heals more consistantly and less of your healing gets sniped by other bored healers.

also would work nicely as an assist tank healer in h modes, though this would mean u would need assistance to keep tanks alive, generally in H modes you try and drop as many heals as possible(and tanks when you can) to maximise dps. Bringing a FOL pally to a h mode means u bring 1 less dps.

i have often toyed with the idea of the fol build... but u just cant justify 7-10k heals every 1 sec on 2 targets compared to 13-20k heals every 1.3 on 2 targets + splash heals.

when it comes down to 2 healing H 10 toc or 5-6 healing h 25 TOC u cant justify carrying a healer.

dont feel bad for using a fol build if it works for the content you raid... but dont bash the ppl who have done the hard content and know what they are talking about.

[Norako]

Thank you Granim. I have been giving it a lot of thought. I see where you are coming from and no doubt what you have suggested works very well. I was more upset with the fact that there was a total lack of acknowledgment for the FoL spec. On my server there are very few good Pally healers (if you've never been on the alliance side of Rivendare then check it out) so I had very little help with building my style/spec. I am pretty much the only Pally healer in my guild so I had to learn the hard way what works and what doesn't and my current spec seemed to work the best, and like I said, I'm rarely outhealed by another paladin. But from what you all have said and the stats you've all quoted (not to mention your gear and achievements), my credentials don't compare. However, I've invested too much time and gold to switch all my gems and chants right now, even though I would love to do that to check out what you all have said. (maybe I can start doing it with any new gear I get) The critical comments just came at a bad time for me personally and I let my emotions overrule my logic.Normally I'm much more receptive to correction. My 4k+ hps can't compare to 7 to 10k hps, so thank you for your input, and I will do my best to improve my style.

[Skinskin]

First time pally healer here. My main is a priest healer with both holy and disc specs, however my guild generally runs with priests and druids (we're a friend guild so don't see much beyond 10m content). I'm not a hardcore raider, but I like to know my class and execute it well, hence all the reading of forums (love tankspot.com BTW). Anyway, my major questions concerned the final 20 points in the talent tree. Going into the prot tree gives you the extended time on SS, and a few more "oh ****" buttons, however my noob-ness failed to see the use of Imp Righteous fury and stoicism (unless in a PvP setting). In the ret tree you seem to get increased dmg for the raid and better crit % but have to keep SS up every 30sec which I can see getting kind of hairy. Any thoughts on the benefits of either one?

[Kudles]

I tend to mainly use Holy Light on tanks, beacon the off tank, and holy shock the raid. When you pop plea, use flash of light (with Sacred Shield up), and after divine plea is down, resume the normal Holy Light, Holy shock, and keeping the FoL tick up.

On a tank pull, start off with Sacred Shield, and get a good FoL crit, when the fight starts, throw a judgement on the boss, then holy shock whoever you're healing. If you want to raid heal along with tank heal, which is what I personally do and it works out well, beacon the one who you were healing before, and cast FoL's on the raid. Lets say it's 25 beasts heroic, you might want to use Holy Light on the raid, but then again, you shouldn't have to heal the raid on that fight.

-US, Firetree, Alliance, Kudles