[orcstar]

The main reasons I'm hesitant to raid as a healerbesides that tanking is just very fun is the verbal abuse healers in general get.
Unless it's a clear case of people making stupid mistakes, the blame game is played on the healers. Not trying to find out who made a mistake but pointing at a group is really frustrating for the people who were doing their assigned job. While it often was not even a healer mistake at all.

Some of the more frustrating times were for me the Najentus Fight: Please people, I know you have to spread out on this fight, but right after his aoe: please unspread a bit because my chainheal doesn't jump targets!!!!
Illidan: tank: I died because of no heals!!!!! After further inspection he got 30k damage in 2 seconds. And ofcourse bloodboil: tanks often getting too many debuffs while it already is a very very healing intensive fight.

If I look at classes we needed to replace in our raid, healers are the ones who got burned out the most.


What are your experiences? Is it just something which isn't handled good in my guild or something more general?

[Colbert]

Well, in my guild it's the healers that criticize the healers. But we also have:

Resto-Druid class, raid & guild leader
Holy-Paladin class leader
Holy-Priest class leader
Resto Shaman class & raid leader

So people know what's possible and when someone fucks up.

[Gwailo]

Yelling at healer's is not a healthy practice.

If for any reason you're being 'yelled' at and it's not your fault. Pack your bags and leave for a more mature raiding scene. If there was any yelling under my watch in the past in my raiding environment, I would sincerely put a halt to that instantly.

If you feel that they're making a point though and you are lacking in awareness to get the job done, then personal accountability goes a long way. Speak up; I've had examples where a wipe has occurred and one my healer's has said "Forgive me guys, that was my bad", including myself from time to time (MT), I've had to speak up right afterward and admit to my mistakes and thankfully those around me respected that and would rather encourage you than to put you down.

I'm sorry that you're in a poor position, it could be handled a lot better. Someone needs to have a firm voice over the raid and the blame game is not what anyone should be playing.

[Lyxia]

100 % support to the poster above of me. Constructive feedback or no feedback.

[Darksend]

i love looking through my time stamped combat log and seeing one heal in the last 15 seconds, and then the healers saying "YEA CUZ WE WERE ALL DEAD"

meanwhile i know im the 1st person do die but i ask anyway what killed you "diamond hit me for 20K" o right, you mean the diamond that killed me long before it killed you

if you were silenced or actually had agro or i was tanking in a retarded spot and out of line of sight and you tell me im out of line of sight so i can move fine, but when you use the excuse that the thing i was tanking and kill me killed you so you or i was out of line of sight for those 15 seconds, i dont know where healers stand tell me if im out of line of sight if you dont thats your fault you couldnt heal me because i would have moved, you will hear it from me.

also i find healers have yet to adjust to the new changes in agro with lifeblood earthshield and PoM and that they always have agro off the pull even when i tell them not to use those till we get agro.

[Fayre]

This is why I run Recount with the nice Death replays.

To be honest, I think the right approach is to talk to healers and see what they think went wrong too - I mean, particularly on new content, healer allocations and assignments can need a fair bit of tweaking to get comfortable.

[loquatious]

hard to make constructive comments to healers honestly.

Would any of these be "constructive"?

1) start healing spell before the mob attacks the tank
2) heal in a rythym with the other healers so you dont overheal
3) heal a lot
4) are you casting a healing spell? Why not? You are not moving!
5) Hey the off tank is dying - i can see it on my pitbull and i dont see an incoming heal
6) MAIN TANK IS AT 20% health - now would be a good time for your instant heals
7) Dont watch TV
8) While the heal is casting - rotate your camera - enjoy the environment Blizzard spent a fortune on it and you are paying your monthly fee - maybe something interesting is going on. Maybe there is a giant patch of blue fire all around you?

[orcstar]

Source: darksend if you were silenced or actually had agro or i was tanking in a retarded spot and out of line of sight and you tell me im out of line of sight so i can move fine, but when you use the excuse that the thing i was tanking and kill me killed you so you or i was out of line of sight for those 15 seconds, i dont know where healers stand tell me if im out of line of sight if you dont thats your fault you couldnt heal me because i would have moved, you will hear it from me. also i find healers have yet to adjust to the new changes in agro with lifeblood earthshield and PoM and that they always have agro off the pull even when i tell them not to use those till we get agro.

Source: loquatious hard to make constructive comments to healers honestly. Would any of these be "constructive"? 1) start healing spell before the mob attacks the tank 2) heal in a rythym with the other healers so you dont overheal 3) heal a lot 4) are you casting a healing spell? Why not? You are not moving! 5) Hey the off tank is dying - i can see it on my pitbull and i dont see an incoming heal 6) MAIN TANK IS AT 20% health - now would be a good time for your instant heals 7) Dont watch TV 8) While the heal is casting - rotate your camera - enjoy the environment Blizzard spent a fortune on it and you are paying your monthly fee - maybe something interesting is going on. Maybe there is a giant patch of blue fire all around you?

And this is the attitude I'm talking about and don't like.
If a dps makes a mistake, it's quickly found out who it was and most everyone knows what went wrong. Same for tanking mistakes.

If however a healer makes a fault people all too often you are not trying to find out what went wrong and who made the mistakes but just generally blame it on the group of healers. In a raid environment every healer has his/her own job and you really need to find out where thingsw went wrong. It's never "healers" that were at fault but one or a few people at their assigned job. Find out who were at fault and correct "that" instead of just pointing at an entire group of players.

But the biggest bug is that also when things just go wrong, the first who are looked at are healers while problems are bigger: like people taking damage they don't need or line of sight issues.

Just in general: find out what went wrong where it went wrong and how to correct it instead of just venting your frustration and shouting at healers in general. And if you didn't get heals for 15 seconds yes, there's a real real big problem but: if someone gets poisoned and you get damage at the same time I cure it WILL take 4 seconds (1,5 gcd+2,5 casting time of healing wave) before I'm able to let that big heal land on you.

[Horacio]

I raided 7 months as a resto druid so I have an appreciation for healers.

I think I'm a fair raid leader and tank. I yell at everyone

I don't yell....I make "derisive sighs"

[goldeneyes]

I am one of the main healers in our guild and I simply admit when i fuck up and they typically let it go. If they want to yell bitch and moan then i just put it on mute wait till they pull hearth and leave raid... not a good way to make friends but they definitely don't bitch at me anymore. Make sure you are good enough of a healer to get away with that or u will probly just simply get gkicked and forgotten about. If you dont want it to take it to that extremes then just let whoever is pissing u off the most die but heal everyone else.

[Kavtor]

Source: Gwailo Yelling at healer's is not a healthy practice. If for any reason you're being 'yelled' at and it's not your fault. Pack your bags and leave for a more mature raiding scene. If there was any yelling under my watch in the past in my raiding environment, I would sincerely put a halt to that instantly.

QFT. I've experience with the type of guild / players the OP mentioned, that like yelling at / blaming the healers. There's no sense at all in that. Sometimes players make mistakes that they weren't aware of, but often times, the healer is trying to do his job just like everyone else, and 14 other things beyond his control went wrong. My experience is, with good healers, it's very, very rarely their fault for anything.

And since they don't get to e-peen the DPS meter, or rockstar tank the boss, make sure they're getting recognition as well. Even mature, well rounded individuals have a little bit of an ego, that responds well to getting thanked.

[Mordigen]

I was a holy pally before I finished leveling my warrior and tanking so like Horacio said, it helps to have that appreciation. There is a lot going on, and the tanks job is to hit the mob in front of him/her, the dps job is to hit the mob infront of him/her, the healers job is to make sure 9/24 other players stay alive. That is a lot more to watch out for, and yes there are more healers and yes there might be several mobs to kill, but it is just a point that even if you are assigned to heal a certain group, you are still always looking out for other people health dropping, or you have to watch to decurse, or you have to cleanse. If you want to be constructive about it then that is fine, help the healer with tactics or where they should stand, but saying my healers suck or grouping everyone together and blaming them all does no good for the raid.

I wonder why LFM healer and g2g is so common?

[mero12513]

We have exactly 2 good healers and about 10 second-rate healers. Whenever healing fails, I post healing meters. Synge and Fulgurite are literally hundreds of thousands of heals ahead of everyone else. I simply toss up the meter and say "Do what they do." Things tend to fix themselves when you give people role models that simply don't make mistakes.

[silai]

If your guild blame healers for each wipe, there is only one thing to do, find a new guild.
As a healer, I can tell you that dps will do anything to top the meter, they dont care if they stand in cleave or in the fire, they need to finish to cast their fireball or get this last combo point, etc ...

When the tank is getting hit by the lazer beam in phase 2 Illidan, you can blame your healers but there is not much we can do.
On Brutallus, when someone doesn't move away with the fire debuff and spread the "disease", there is not much we can do.
On Eredar, when someone doesn't move when she casts conflag ....

See a pattern?

Your healers might be awesome but there is only so much they can do.
It's everyone responsibility to stay alive, healers should only have to heal unavoidable damage.

[Baceramus]

I've only "yelled" at healers once in the last 6 months. This was last Thursday when we were doing our attempts on Kael. I was picking him up, bash fireball, no one there to help with second(asked what was up in vent), absorbed that one, last stand/shield wall/pot/healthstone, eventually died from no heals or help on interrupts. That was how my night was so I felt a tiny bit justified in my rant. Usually I leave 'em alone as I know how much of a pain it is to heal and how frustrating it is to have someone asking for heals or complain about it.

[loquatious]

I've honestly never seen Healers step up and take the blame the way other classes do.

When a tank stays in the illidan beam - EVERYONE knows why they wiped and dammit it was as screwup. No sugar coating it the tank messed up. If a DPS pulls aggro during a trasition they screwed up and need to adjust their play.

IF a tank dies during a boss fight then that same attitude should be displayed by healers. We have recount and Grim Reaper - and you can see how many heals landed over the last 30 seconds and then discuss if that was reasonable. If the healers cant land enough heals either there are not enough of them or they are not doing what they should be.

Why should 1 class of players not step up and say we dropped the ball and we will do better. I play a healer in end game, and guess what? In my guild and 2 guilds i've helped Healer chat does not fill up after a tank dies - otoh Tank Chat does. When we tackle a fight we talk a lot - we talk after - we talk during. Healers need to do the same and should not be given a pass on errors. When tanks die the first thing to do is to see if the tank did somethin stupid if he did not then either the healers did something stupid or the raid leader didnt assign enough resources.

[Starvationofmind]

The general rule of thumb:

If the tank dies, its the healer's fault
If the healer dies, its the tank's fault
If the dps dies, its his own damn fault

That said, the reason I stopped healing and started tanking is that, while I loved healing (and I honestly believe its harder to do well than tanking, go ahead /flame me) I could not deal with all the crap that gets thrown the healers way.

When in a raid, I was the last person thanked for a good kill and the first one blamed for a wipe.

The tank went down: "DO YOUR JOB. KEEPING THE TANK UP IS YOUR FIRST PRIORITY"

The boss enrages: "DO YOUR JOB. YOU NEED TO KEEP THE DPS ALIVE TO KILL THE BOSS"

I Die: "MORON, YOUR CAN HEAL YOURSELF YOU KNOW, N00B!!"

I go oom: "STOP WASTING YOUR MANA ON THE DPS/YOURSELF, KEEP THE TANK UP"

and I can go on like that.

Long story short: healers are very under appreciated and if the GM wasn't my best friend IRL, I would have gquit to find a new home.

I had a very long post on our guild forums about this, but my main beef with that mentality is that dps seems to think their first priority is to make the big yellow numbers appear over the boss' head, when in actuality their top priority is to NOT TAKE UNNECESSARY DAMAGE so they can make the big yellow numbers appear over the boss' head.

My job was to heal raid wide, unavoidable damage, cure poison and curses, not cure stupid.

Quote from the T5 progression days: "Every time someone gets hit by spout I die a little inside"

[orcstar]

Source: loquatious I've honestly never seen Healers step up and take the blame the way other classes do. When a tank stays in the illidan beam - EVERYONE knows why they wiped and dammit it was as screwup. No sugar coating it the tank messed up. If a DPS pulls aggro during a trasition they screwed up and need to adjust their play. IF a tank dies during a boss fight then that same attitude should be displayed by healers. We have recount and Grim Reaper - and you can see how many heals landed over the last 30 seconds and then discuss if that was reasonable. If the healers cant land enough heals either there are not enough of them or they are not doing what they should be. Why should 1 class of players not step up and say we dropped the ball and we will do better. I play a healer in end game, and guess what? In my guild and 2 guilds i've helped Healer chat does not fill up after a tank dies - otoh Tank Chat does. When we tackle a fight we talk a lot - we talk after - we talk during. Healers need to do the same and should not be given a pass on errors. When tanks die the first thing to do is to see if the tank did somethin stupid if he did not then either the healers did something stupid or the raid leader didnt assign enough resources.

I agree a lot on this post, everyone should step up for their mistakes whether healer or not. If there's something going wrong it needs to be fixed. Also using healing meters aren't the best resource to see if healers are doing well. If you're a shaman assigned to raidhealing you will easily have 3 times the healing of the paladin assigned as main tank healer in a fight with much raiddamage. And just like the tank who maybe walks through a beam, everyone knows which player was in error. Do the same for healers and find out what goes wrong. I kinda dislike it if I get yelled at for tank A going down when I'm assigned healing tank B 100 yds away.

But my point was more about when no people (yet) knew what went wrong. If you don't know what went wrong, find out first. Maybe you didn't receive heals because line of sight issues, maybe the healer got knocked back because a dumb dps kited a zul'jin cyclone too him or maybe it's a sloppy healer that needs to be replaced. Find out what happened and then take actions. Not just the undirected "healers ffs". Because at that moment you're also blaming people who did their assigned job 100% correct.

One of the things with finding out what went wrong is that it's not always clear what went wrong. Give people that time. (First thing I do when someone dies is pull-up the death log from recount to see what happened.)

[qygibo]

Maybe it's just me but I don't feel like I'm yelled at a lot as a healer. I benefit from the fact that our raid leader knows what it's like as a healer, since he started off as a healer before becoming our guild's main tank, and it seems that the source of a lot of people getting yelled at is because the people yelling at them don't know what it's like as a healer. And when I do get yelled at, I know if it's my fault and I'll take the blame for it if need be.

I feel that I'm pretty well balanced, having a dps, a healer, and a tank, and I feel that a lot of people aren't well balanced like that so they assume a lot of things that they shoudln't.

[Farothin]

My wife is the defacto healing lead so when I die and I don't understand why, I usually turn around and ask her what happened. Not because I think it's her fault but because if I didn't see what was going on with the heals, perhaps she did. Then we'll discuss what the actual cause was; whether it's I just took too much damage too quickly, or something was preventing the healers from delivering enough HPS to me. The default assumption is always that something in our tactics is flawed and we need to adjust. If that doesn't seem to be the problem then we start looking at the possibility of people not pulling their weight.