[holmedog]

Thunderclap does not proc cruelty.

I don't know about shockwave (I've never had a build with both).

Critical blocks don't, either.

[Miratu]

Thanks for this interesting reading, alot of great info ^^

[CKaz]

Source: holmedog Thunderclap does not proc cruelty. I don't know about shockwave (I've never had a build with both). Critical blocks don't, either.

Huh I got the opposite from a poster on EJ [I'm sure you meant DeepWounds above]
I have a bit of a lowbie Warrior but I should be able to test TF/DW this wkend.

[holmedog]

Yes, I did mean deap wounds above.

The last time I tested (and it has been a few months) deep wounds didn't proc off anything that was classified as a spell (that you can't cast while silenced). Now, I don't know if that changed. Also, I don't know if shockwave falls into that category.

[rameds]

very nice guide

[Zrthun]

Source: holmedog Yes, I did mean deap wounds above. The last time I tested (and it has been a few months) deep wounds didn't proc off anything that was classified as a spell (that you can't cast while silenced). Now, I don't know if that changed. Also, I don't know if shockwave falls into that category.

That is wrong. Tested it in this build and Deep wounds proc from TC, SW and Damage Shield. For example damage Shield:

Wow Web Stats

Don't know when this log expires. But you can find all hat you need inside.

[Wroar]

Thanks, Ztrhun, I'll do some research into this myself soon too. Unfortunately I've been very busy the past week, and will be for most of next week. If Deep Wounds does now proc off all these attacks, it might possibly be viable. It all depends on some maths concering Cruelty dps vs Deep Wounds dps.

[CKaz]

Just thought it was interesting enough to warrant a little chatter
Maybe I can get the EJ crew to do the maths for us

Awesome guide tho and my lowbie prot warr is grinding along

edit - no luck with EJ math, maybe I need a formal thread there rather than Q&A
looks like the thought has been picked up in theories forum tho leading to slow weapon thoughts

[Cassidyny1@cfl.rr.com]

Hi Im new to the Warrior Tank Forums and I have to say everytime I come here I leave well fed . Everyones posts are like comfort food on a cold Sunday night B-)

[kolben]

Thinking of picking this build up tonight when I get home.
WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Warrior -> Talent Calculator

I'm just now in the gearing up process before I start putting together some raids.
I haven't seen any numbers on Imp. Demo shout, and my groups will be all pickups for the near future so no way to predict what classes will be available. 2/5 Imp Demo shout seems like it will help take the edge off the harder hitters in heroics and beyond. That's of course assuming that the 16% we used in TBC still reduces AP to 0, I can't find any current info on it.

Good guide!

[Bonrgrind]

Wow...You have changed my idea of tanking quite a bit with this post.

Thank you very much for taking the time to write all of this out. When my guild complements me on my new taking ability, I shall smile and privately thank you in me head.

Again many thanks,

Bonegrind~

[Tarkonn]

Hey there Wroar, I found your talent build a bit odd. I was hoping to get your insight on a build that I have been tweaking while tanking through Wrath.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warr...h=020415010306

As far as my rotation is concerned, I will pull/charge SS, then fall into a priority based rotation of:
Single: SS>Revenge>Devastate>Heroic Strike(rage dump)
Shockwave/Concussion Blow/Rend tossed in when applicable

Multiple: SS>Revenge>Thunder Clap>Cleave with no rage dump
Shockwave/Concussion Blow/Rend tossed in when applicable

I'll post more later on, but I just got summoned to tank again, would love to see you pick my brain on going through to getting 120% bonus to cleave instead of going into arms.

Ok, back... One very VERY large thing I feel that is left out from warrior changes is that Berserker Rage is now useable in all stances, which lets us break fears and also generate more rage while taking damage. Or there is always the possibility it has always been this way, and I just didn't notice(in which case that would be really sad on my part).

Either way, hope to hear back soon!

[Zrthun]

Well interesting for the deep wounds prot spec:

We changed how the game handles debuffs (i.e. negative state effects on targets) on creatures with Wrath of the Lich King. The old hard cap of 40 debuffs on a target no longer effectively exists. You can now apply way more debuffs to a target without them dropping off before their duration expires. The default WoW UI will not normally display all these debuffs, but they really are still there!

See: World of Warcraft (en) Forums -> Debuff Cap Removed

Now it is no problem in 25 raids to create more debuffs at prot.

Another thing I want to add is that deep wounds at patchwerk (10) was around 10% of my damage (did 1600 dps) with a fast weapon.

[Bigdangerous]

This is my first post on here, so take it easy on me if this is a silly question. I don't get to play very often, due to my personal life, so instead spend alot of time just reading and researching. I have yet to really experience any good content either, being only lvl 71 and 68, respectively, for any real tanking situations. However, I was wondering about Hit Rating v. Revenge. I notice alot of the gear from quests and such has alot of +Hit Rating. If our Hit Rating were to increase drastically, would Revenge not proc. enough to be useful? (Sorry if this doesn't really apply to this particular post, but it is a tanking/threat issue in the long run, so I figured I would toss it out to a pro such as yourself.) Thanks!

[Rakhar]

Great write up, you made me respec into an impale build. I was still thinking in TBC terms apparently. I do have one question though, it wasn't really covered in the topic...someone may have touched on it in the posts though but I didn't read every single one.

Which would yield more TPS 5/5 Cruelty, or 2/5 cruelty 3/3 Armored Teeth?
The only real gains from Armored Teeth would be increased damage to TC, and Revenge...right? Would the extra damage for TC/Revenge justify losing 3% Crit?

[CKaz]

Check out the theory forum, that's some of what we're [all] kicking around.

Wroar's build is terrific and gets us most of the way [if not all the way] there, but there's some deviations and situations to be worked out a little more in depth yet. Just touching on those points:

51-53 points in Prot - a utility or two or shaving a little off shield spec or focused rage
3-8 in Fury - AttT vs Cruelty as you mentioned or even shaving more here [for DW]
12-15 in Arms - if you agree with Impale and then there's the additional DW thought

It gets fuzzy and it starts rolling into how you play, what's your gear, what's your Crit value, single/multi-target, you over or under threat, you rage dumping or starved, etc. It's a great core to launch into those discussions though, /thank Wroar

edit - AttT effects more than that, one big one being Heroic Strike, so it's not one to take off lightly being consistent +AP.

[Tongari]

I just wanted to thank you for this fantastic guide. It's really going to be a great help when I get around to getting my warrior up to 80.

[Synopsis]

Even after this very thorough and informative read....I'm still very much undecided as to whether or not HS or Dev should be the primary tank attack.

I completely understand how tanking worked in TBC, and how HS was utilized as a rage dump. However Dev is just as much of a rage dump, if not more effective at maintaining endless rage while trying to dump it.

Forgoing my normal attack swing to perform an HS will not only spend rage, but prevent rage gen. Dev however will allow rage to continue to flow in while I'm spending it.

Yes I know that HS has a higher threat ratio than Dev with 5 sunders does. However HS does not contribute to S/B procs, and because SS trumps them both in the threat ratio category....it should stand to reason that you'll want to make SS as much of a primary tank attack as you possibly can.

Devastate offers:
-15% crit from S/B talent
-Sunder application
-Slow 1hander viability
-Allows rage gen
-30% S/B proc rate for free rage SS
-Rage dump based on Devastate being spammable regardless of wep speed
-Easy AOE tanking viable with glyphs
-9 rage cost with talents

Heroic Strike offers:
-15% crit from incite
-Fast 1hander viability
-Restricts rage gen
-Rage dump solely based on wep speed
-9 rage cost with talents

Glyphs
Devastate benefits from Glyph of Devastate and Glyph of Sunder Armor
Heroic Strike benefits from Glyph of Heroic Strike and possibly even Glyph of Revenge depending on your idea of what a 'benefit' is


Multimob tanking + higher chance of free SS procs is whats making me believe that Devastate tanking should trump HS tanking.

Anyone find an issue with my theory? Is there something I'm missing?


EDIT:
Alternatively, I'm not sure why it has been decided Vig is not worth investing it. Giving the top DPSr in my raid the ability to give me a free 10% threat gen seems like a no brainer to me. Not only does it give me free threat at no cost to my efforts in the raid other than keeping it up every 30mins. But it allows the top DPSr in the raid to go crazy on the mob, not holding back for fear of overcoming the threat the tank has.

[Zaio]

Synopsis:
Why not use both? Most warriors tend to take Glyphs of Blocking, Revenge, and Heroic Strike, which negates the less-rage downside pretty easily. As Wroar has said, and my personal experience reflects this, Devastate just isn't worth the GCD when either SS or Revenge is up. Since Devastate is then used rather sparingly, and you definitely do NOT want to skip a Revenge or SS proc just to dump some rage, you can use it as well as Heroic Strike when your rage permits it. It really does work.
However, I will disagree with Wroar's evaluation of Vigilance. I'm more than happy to lose 2% crit from Cruelty to snag two very awesome abilities. Maybe the numbers work out differently, but I like the idea of gaining threat while stunned/MC'd/otherwise incapacitated (I'm assuming that would work, if not, I have some points to move).
My spec is more or less as follows.
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

[Synopsis]

Source: Zaio Synopsis: Why not use both? Most warriors tend to take Glyphs of Blocking, Revenge, and Heroic Strike, which negates the less-rage downside pretty easily. As Wroar has said, and my personal experience reflects this, Devastate just isn't worth the GCD when either SS or Revenge is up. Since Devastate is then used rather sparingly, and you definitely do NOT want to skip a Revenge or SS proc just to dump some rage, you can use it as well as Heroic Strike when your rage permits it. It really does work. However, I will disagree with Wroar's evaluation of Vigilance. I'm more than happy to lose 2% crit from Cruelty to snag two very awesome abilities. Maybe the numbers work out differently, but I like the idea of gaining threat while stunned/MC'd/otherwise incapacitated (I'm assuming that would work, if not, I have some points to move). My spec is more or less as follows. Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Well I think its pretty obvious that you shouldnt favor a rage dumping ability over a proc'd SS or Revenge....regardless of whether you spam dev or HS for rage dumping.

Even if you go on gcd by using Dev, which procs SS. Yes you might experience a delay of .5sec or 1.0sec before you can hit your SS. But the fact that you got it at all, should be of larger concern. Whereas an HS spamer won't.

I think what it really comes down to is......is the 6sec cd on SS fast enough to deem it a spammable means of maintaining high threat? Or should one truly want to speed that up further?