[Dreador]

Source: Stegho There is no data being used to prove the original assertions. If you want a build to steamroll old content, this is great. If you want a raid tanking build, particularly when and if they release some harder content, forget about Impale.

When and if. For the current 10 and 25 person content, it's perfectly fine. Not to mention if you're not constantly respeccing and trying new things, especially as early as it is in the expansion, you're not tanking to your full potential. Speccing for a specific encounter is not unheard of, and what of dual specs next patch? Being the MT for my guild there are few situations where I'll be pulling out an Arms spec and 2hander. Having 2 different prot specs will make one more versatile for clearing raids faster.

But back to my point, post up a level 80 spec sans-impale so I can pick apart the protection or fury talents you don't need in any particular situation.

[holmedog]

The only damage mitigation talent I see missing is 4% chance of being missed by spells.

I just don't see where that is going to make up for 20% more damage on crits and 20% less time being stunned/charmed.



I'm not trying to be hard headed here. If there is a better spec, I want to find it. But, I don't see spending any more than 54 points in Prot, and I would personally argue any more than 51 is a waste.

There should be an attack power debuff in the raid besides you, too many other classes have it rolled into their builds.

[Tyriall]

I've mentioned this before but blue posts have alluded to a comment about how a raid may be held back if the main tank's DPS is completely abysmal. Instead of innate threat we now have the wonderful advantage of doing high amounts of damage. Conc Blow, Revenge, Shockwave and Shield Slam crit for a lot... adding 20% to those is, in my opinion, something very worthy of looking into. I'm really having a hard time coming up with an argument NOT to take it.

[Stegho]

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft for all purpose

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft for high damage boss fights.

[Dreador]

Quoted and edited with my responses.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft for all purpose - This is seriously debatable as far as what points to use, puncture and shield spec specifically do not need the points so much, I don't see why you're complaining about impale here.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft for high damage boss fights. - I can see the imp spell reflect, maybe even the demo shout. Tell me, why the hell would you ever take puncture over focused rage???

[Tyriall]

Source: Stegho Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft for all purpose Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft for high damage boss fights.

Why in the world would you put 3 points into puncture instead of focused rage?

I just can't see myself taking Imp Demo and Imp Disciplines over Impale and Imp HS, but these builds will definitely let you tank things. Personal preference, I suppose.

Edit: Dreador got to it first.

[Stegho]

Ehh, it was a quick sketch to answer a question with little thought put into it. I use the first spec.

[holmedog]

I would argue that you always need the 5/5 shield spec. Free rage, free blocks. I can't see anything at all wrong with that from a mitigation standpoint, and that is still the first and foremost thing we should be doing.

This is the spec I plan on using. I'm still leveling at the moment, though. You can pull the points out of IHS and put them in Improved Charge for instances. I like them in IHS right now, though.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

[var2ezis]

Imp HS glyph vs Sunder armor glyph.

Since right now we will be doing alot of heroics and tanking alot of trash, would it be better to get the SA glyph since its effected by devistate and it would be effecting 2 targets over just 1? I know the argument right now is devistate is just used to apply sunders & to refresh and we should be using other cooldowns first, but i havent seen anybody mention the usefulness of this glyph, or if it is useful at all.

In terms of builds i kinda agree with what most of the builds are putting up, although the imp charge to me is worthless. I really dont find myself needing the extra 10 rage, instead id rather use those 2 points in ironwill, and lose 1 more % crit to max it out. Again this is more of a personal preference but i find alot of mobs in heroics like to stun and if i can help reduce its effect why not right? This is the build i most likely am respecing to tonight.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

My logic for vigaliance has yet to change since the last time i posted. It is way to good of an ability in saving the squishies on agro dump or spawned adds during fights.

Conc blow is needed for vigaliance but it also is way to damn good to help your survivablity i wouldnt give it up. Also its just 1 more spell interrupt, totaling 3 where every other tank only gets 1.

What do you guys think? im assuming keeping same glyphs (Imp HS / Block / revenge)

[Dreador]

Source: Stegho Ehh, it was a quick sketch to answer a question with little thought put into it. I use the first spec.

Done arguing, you've said all I needed to say. Wroar, great guide, I'm going to spread to word a bit. This is most helpful both for those just reaching 70's as well as experienced raiders.

[Wroar]

Awesome discussion going on, guys, and thanks for the compliment, Dreador. I'm very glad that my initial work on this guide has turned into something that has helped so many people and continues to be a platform for discussions about all aspects of tanking =)

Var2Ezis, I have yet to add a Glyph section to the guide and I certainly will when I get the time soon, in the same update as a small section on the new stat caps mentioned before. As a quick answer to Glyph of Devastate, I think it's certainly useful, especially in small instances. There are quite a few Glyphs that are useful in certain ways, and I've gone for Glyphs of Revenge, Heroic Strike and Blocking myself, mainly because I think those three add more to my tanking right now then the other available Glyphs.

Like a few of the talents we have now, Glyphs are a very personal thing and largely depend on a person's playstyle, and are not meant to be a significant difference, leaving us free to choose whichever glyphs we like. Glyph of Blocking is probably the only one that is so strong, I'd recommend all tanks to have it. If you do a lot of small instances then Glyph of Dev might be worth considering. I'll check out some maths on the glyphs when I get time to write an update.

[Stegho]

Source: Dreador Done arguing, you've said all I needed to say.

Yeah, that's a valid argument to my assertion that Impale is unnecessary. Regardless, there wasn't a single questioning of a point allocation in the spec I actually use. (Even I find one point questionable there.)

[Infantry_11b]

NOTE: This is not my own work, nor my math. It can be found on the EJ forums.

http://elitistjerks.com/f81/t36784-warrior_simple_questions_simple_answers/


At level 80, against a level 83 mob:

Defense cap: 540=689 defense rating to be uncrittable

Single-wielding hit cap without Precision: 296 hit rating to remove the 9% miss rate.

Single-wielding hit cap with Precision: 197 hit rating to remove the 6% miss rate.

Without Weapon Mastery: 214 expertise rating to remove the 6.5% dodge rate (equal to 26 expertise skill)

With 2/2 Weapon Mastery: 148 expertise rating to remove the 4.5% dodge rate (equal to 18 expertise skill)

[Kazeyonoma]

it might also be worth noting since prot warriors don't get weapon mastery, that you get 6 expertise skill from Vitality, that makes it 6.5-1.25 = 5.25% needed to remove dodge, which is 20 expertise skill = 164.6 or 165 expertise rating to remove dodges.

[Infantry_11b]

u are correct, a prot warr cannot spec into weapon mastery without losses to many TPS and mitigation talents. the post was meant to be general. (please excuse me if this looks messy, as i am replying on my phone...)

[tormaxed]

Can you help me understand why you choose Impale over Cruelty in your spec?

To me it seems like a point in crulty is worth 5 times the damage of impale.

scenario: 100 hits for 100 damage with 1% chance to crit gives 10,100 damage, now what to choose?

20% extra damage on crits = 10,120 damage
1 extra % crit = 10,200 damage

Cruelty >> Impale

Thanks for reading.

[Kazeyonoma]

you have to factor in your base crit before cruelty to weigh in the differences of cruelty vs. impale.

[tormaxed]

Ah yes, so after you have 5% crit impale becomes better, thanks.

[Wroar]

Actually according to some maths done elsewhere on Tankspot, which I've referenced in the guide, Impale beats Cruelty when you have 25% crit. That is 25% raid crit when your fully raid buffed with all the crit talents, though, which is incredibly easy to get. Hence why Impale beats Cruelty.

[CKaz]

Awesome guide/thread, my thanks - just wanted to tailgate on your last post above -

Going further, I know you felt Deep Wounds < Cruelty considering our 1h tanking weapon, however does Thunder Clap and Shockwave [crits] also proc Deep Wounds, possibly adding relevant 'ticking and sticking' threat help?

Obviously not anything great and could in fact reduce CC efforts, but if AoE tanking was even more of a focus, I wonder if this would be enough to edge out Cruelty?

e.g my 'build in progress' with only slight variation [+deepwounds,-cruelty,+concblow]
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft [15/3/53]