3.0 feral druid pre-wrath and leveling guide - TankSpot
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3.0 feral druid pre-wrath and leveling guide
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Old 10-12-2008, 05:15 AM
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3.0 feral druid pre-wrath and leveling guide

The purpose of this guide is to help feral druids prepare for WOTLK. This is written from the point of view of someone who has cleared sunwell, and is in mostly sunwell and t6 gear, so my experiences will be different from people who are still progressing through content. That said, this guide should still appeal to all druids be it tanking 5 mans and heroics to off tanking t6 and beyond, to main tanking sunwell.

Table of Contents:


I. 3.0 major talent changes
II. 3.0 major ability/item changes
III. Gear Info
A. General Info
B. Enchants
C. Rings, Necks, Cloaks, and Trinkets
IV. Glyphs
V. Talent Builds
A. Tank
B. Hybrid PvE
C. DPS PvE
D. PvP
E. Leveling
VI. Useful Links



I. 3.0 major talent changes

Here is a brief overview of things that have changed. (No abilities gained from 71-80 will be mentioned).


Furor
-now lets you retain up to 20/40/60/80/100 energy when entering cat (energy will now tick regardless of form). Bear form portion unchanged.
Comment - By doing this, powershifting is effectively dead. One plus to this is in PVP chasing a mage with frostbite, you can shift and still have your 100 energy and you are out of nova. You can also go to bear for a bit, mangle, stun and then be in cat with 100 energy.

Omen of Clarity - now passive, but no longer procs off specials.
Comment - Based on Toskk’s spreadsheets for cat this is still superior to berserk (also scales with haste). Despite my tests and lack of procs, it has been confirmed this procs off of Maul as well.

Feral Instinct - threat component removed and rolled into the base threat of bear form. Now increases swipe damage by 10/20/30%. Cat portion unchanged.
Comment - Swipe now hits all targets in front of you instead of just 3, this will be a very important talent for 5mans and heroics.

Savage Fury - now increases Mangle (bear) and Maul by 10/20%. Cat portion unchanged. Now a tier 2 talent.

Feral Swiftness - move speed now works indoors, rest unchanged.

Faire Fire Feral - now a trained ability.
Comment - When used in bear form it will deal damage and produce additional threat.

Feral Charge - moved to 21 points. Feral Charge (Cat) added, bear charge unchanged.
Comment - Feral Charge (Cat) is now a mini-shadowstep, (albeit even this late in beta still very very buggy from reports I’ve heard). As of 9061 it does not break stealth. Cat cooldown is 30 seconds. Using Feral Charge (Cat) activates a 15 second cooldown on Feral Charge (Bear)

New 11 POINT TALENT: Survival Instincts-
increases max health by 30% for 20 seconds 5 minute cooldown. This is usable in bear or cat.
Comment - as of the writing of this it was still on GCD, warrior last stand is not on GCD, hopefully this is a bug and will be addressed.

Predatory Strikes - grants 7/14/20% of the feral attack power on your weapon, rest unchanged.

NEW Tier 4 TALENT: Primal Precision - requires Sharpened Claws - Increases expertise by 5/10 and refunds 40/80% of the energy is a finisher fails to land.

Brutal Impact - (moved to tier 5) reduces the cool down of your bash by 15/30 seconds, rest unchanged.
Comment - Bash is now a spell interrupt, which can be used in pve to interrupt stun immune mobs/bosses and in pvp if you bash while someone is casting and they trinket they are still locked out after the trinket.

NEW Tier 6 TALENT: Natural Reaction - Adds 2/4/6% dodge in bear form, and all dodges in bear form generate 1/2/3 rage.

Survival of the Fittest - now increases all attributes by 2/4/6% and reduces the chance you'll be critically hit by melee attacks by 2/4/6%.
Comment - This means that druids now get passive crit immunity from Survival of the Fittest and no longer need defense or resilience on your gear. Also, this talent is now an extremely powerful DPS talent as well, and should be included in any build even if you do not plan on tanking.

Imp leader of the pack - now grants 4/8% mana, heal unchanged.
Comment - It states that you only get mana when you are affected by the heal, which in theory means that If you are always at full health you would never receive any mana back. Not in beta to actually test this myself. Confirmed even if it is a 100% overheal you still get the mana return.

Primal tenacity - reduces the duration of fear by 10/20/30% and reduces damage taken while stunned by the same amount.
Comment - Possibly useful for bosses who stun but still very situational for pve, druids could have a niche as the "stun tank" by taking this talent in as your dual spec when that is implimented, much better than it was for pvp.

NEW Tier 8 TALENT: Protector of the Pack - Increases your attack power in Bear Form and Dire Bear Form by 2/4/6%, and for each friendly player in your party when you enter Bear Form or Dire Bear Form, damage you take is reduced while in Bear Form and Dire Bear Form by 1/2/3%.
Comment - This does not include the druid as a party member. At the moment, it works regardless of distance, different instances, DCed or dead players.

NEW Tier 8 TALENT: Infected Wounds - Your Shred, Maul, and Mangle attacks cause an Infected Wound in the target. The Infected Wound reduces the movement speed of the target by 8/17/25% and the attack speed by 3/7/10%. Stacks up to 2 times. Lasts 12 sec.
Comment - This is the new druid thunderclap.

Predatory Instincts - down to 3 points, 3/7/10% crit damage, AOE damage reduction up to 10/20/30%.
Comment - Ghostcrawler posted this talent now only effects cat form, but only in direct reference to the AOE damage reduction aspect of it. We still are not sure if the crit damage bonus effects bear or not. Confirmed that this is a CAT ONLY talent.
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Tier 9:

King of the Jungle - While using your Enrage ability in Bear Form or Dire Bear Form, your damage is increased by 5/10/15%, and your Tiger's Fury ability also instantly restores 20/40/60 energy.
Comment - Tiger’s Fury is now a base 30 second cooldown.

Improved Mangle - Reduces the cooldown of your Mangle (Bear) ability by 0.5/1/1.5 sec., and reduces the energy cost of your Mangle (Cat) ability by 2/4/6.
Comment - With imp Mangle, WITH FOCUS ON BEAR, do not put only 1 or 2 points into it because of the 1.5 second GCD it is either 3 or none.

Tier 10:


Rend and Tear - Increases damage done by your Maul and Shred attacks on bleeding targets by 4/8/12/16/20%, and increases the critical strike chance of your Ferocious Bite ability on bleeding targets by 10/20/30/40/50%.

Tier 11:


Berserk - When activated, this ability causes your Mangle (Bear) ability to hit up to 3 targets and have no cooldown, and reduces the energy cost of all your Cat Form abilities by 50%. Lasts 15 sec. You cannot use Tiger's Fury while Berserk is active. Clears the effect of Fear and makes you immune to Fear for the duration. 3 minute cooldown.
Comment - If mangle is already on cooldown in bear, it will not reset the cooldown, use wisely.


II. 3.0 major ability/item changes

SKILLS
  • Barkskin - now usable in forms. This is our answer to “bearwall” (even though it has more akin to shield block than shield wall).
  • Entangling Roots - now usable inside.
  • Nature’s grasp - now a trained ability, at the old 5/5 talented 100% chance, also usable in forms. This actually could be useful when tanking if you are taking extra damage hit this and back up some, one less thing beating on you.
  • Revive - Druids new out of combat rez.
  • Growl - 20 yards to match the warrior and death knight equivalents.
  • Challenging roar - down to 3 minutes.
  • Dash - down to 3 minutes.
  • Maim - now breaks on a given amount of damage as opposed to any damage.
  • Frenzied regen - will now heal for 30% of your hp if all 100 rage is consumed.
  • Maul - now affected by mangle/trauma.
ITEMS
  • Green armor values removed from leather items.
  • Weapon procs (such as mongoose and executioner) will now proc in forms.
  • Healthstones, Potions, and the like can now be used in forms. Note: "the like" includes quest items. There are quests in early Tundra that requires you to burn grain, repair harvesters, and use a net to bring flying mobs to the ground, when i did these i literally cried on vent about how happy I was we finally have gotten the ability to do quests in forms. I have not tested looting ground spawn quest items but i believe (based on being able to herb in form) that you can most likely loot those as well.


III. Gear Info

A. General Info

With the changes to survival of the fittest, the nerfed agi-> dodge conversion, and most notably the armor nerf, a lot of feral druids as scratching there heads as to what items are going to be good.

One thing to keep in mind when considering gear, especially enchants, is that it seems threat is more or less becoming easier, as blizzard wants more tanks to play the game.

Even with the change to armor, i still sit comfortably at 25K armor in bear unbuffed. Green armor took up item budget, so without it to keep the items ILVL, they need to add stats. Do not be surprised to see yourself gain 50-60 str stam and agi when you log in after 3.0 (about 20 or so of each stat will come from gear the rest will be from the SOTF % change). So most likely you will still be using your same gear. See "C. Rings, Necks, Cloaks, and Trinkets" for the major exceptions.

B. Enchants

If you have defense or resilence gems/enchants they should mostly be replaced:

Helm:
CoT vs SSO, both provide wasted stats in defense or resilence, but defense will still give you some dodge and chance to be missed.
CoT vs CE, if you are in high t6/sunwell gear, you may consider using the CE enchant. Newer tanks should probably still be using the CoT enchant. Remember, threat appears to be easier now so consider survival stats.

Shoulders:
Stick with the def/dodge of your faction. The tps you will gain by switching to the ap/crit is minimal for the amount, unless you are really having trouble generating threat.

Cape:
12 agi in all cases over 12 def.

Chest:
6 all stats over 15 def/resilience.

Bracers:
12 stam or 4 to all stats are both viable over 12 def.

Weapon:
I'm sticking with 35 agi simply because i don't like procs and i have to many weapons to afford mongoose on all of them. This is more for the theorycrafters. Executioner is bad because we rely on bleeds for most of our DPS and for tanking the dodge from either 35 agi or mongoose is better.

Boots:
12 agi or 12 stam. Boars speed or Cats swiftness if you feel like spending.

Legs:
40 stam 12 agi.

gloves:
15 agi still (with the change to spell hit rating, Formula: Enchant Gloves - Spell Strike - Item - World of Warcraft is now normal hit as well but i would stick with 15 agi and get hit elsewere).


C. Rings, Necks, Cloaks, and Trinkets

The biggest changes will be to rings, necks, capes, and trinkets. Because of the lack of defense on leather these were considered our "crit immune slots." With innate crit immunity these will see the most drastic changes. They are in order of easiest to obtain.

trinkets:

Trinkets - Items - World of Warcraft
anything on that list will be a good start.

Shard of Contempt - Item - World of Warcraft threat trinket, if you are comfortable with your EH and avoidance.

Badge of Tenacity - Item - World of Warcraft will always be good, probably not replaced till level 80 heroics (there is one with 550 armor in heroics and 850 armor in naxx 25 so there is hope).

Moroes' Lucky Pocket Watch - Item - World of Warcraft will still be good early on as it is fairly easy to attain (unless you have my luck with drop rates).

Shadowmoon Insignia - Item - World of Warcraft is still best in slot, but barely. if threat is an issue i will most likely be replacing this with below.

Steely Naaru Sliver - Item - World of Warcraft will probably replace my shadowmoon insignia full time so i can work more hit rating back into my gear in other slots.


rings:

Ring of the Stalwart Protector - Item - World of Warcraft will continue to be best in slot unless you have access to muru.

Band of Determination - Item - World of Warcraft will probably now be in every most druids second ring slot full time now.

Violet Signet of the Great Protector - Item - World of Warcraft is still extremly viable however but unless you do not have other options, try to avoid 2 defense rings at the same time.

Band of the Abyssal Lord - Item - World of Warcraft is still ok, but definatly not prefered unless you have no other way of working hit rating into your gear.

Ring of Hardened Resolve - Item - World of Warcraft will continue to be the best ring for those with access to it.

neck:

Necklace of the Deep - Item - World of Warcraft with 2 agi gems, or even 2 stam gems, will be a great way to start gearing up.

Enchanted Thorium Torque - Item - World of Warcraft is another item that is easy to attain and holds up relatively well.

Brooch of Deftness - Item - World of Warcraft is possibly the best neck even through all of BT for druids now.

Shattered Sun Pendant of Resolve - Item - World of Warcraft is a great replacement if you do not want to spend the badges and you are exalted with both your faction and SSO.

Pendant of Titans - Item - World of Warcraft is probably worse than the badge neck now.

Collar of the Pit Lord - Item - World of Warcraft even sunwell druids may want to consider buying the badge neck now.

capes:

Thoriumweave Cloak - Item - World of Warcraft is making a comeback, every ferals 1st tanking cape.

Slikk's Cloak of Placation - Item - World of Warcraft will still be the best however.

Gilded Thorium Cloak - Item - World of Warcraft is slightly better than thoriumweave because of the minor avoidance from defense.

Pepe's Shroud of Pacification - Item - World of Warcraft and Crimson Paragon's Cover - Item - World of Warcraft could be substituted in if you are in dire need of hit or expertise but only if are still using 2 armor rings and badge of tenacity.

IV. Glyphs

With 3.0, you will also unlock 3 minor and 2 major glyph slots (the 3rd major will open up at 80).

Here is a preview off all the glyphs that will affect ferals (either tanking or DPS). Note the mangle one requires a skill level that will not be available until wrath.


MINOR:

Glyph of Thorns - Item - World of Warcraft
Glyph of Unburdened Rebirth - Item - World of Warcraft
Glyph of Challenging Roar - Item - World of Warcraft
Glyph of Dash - Item - World of Warcraft

Glyph of Growl - Item - World of Warcraft i put this here but separate because the warrior taunt resist glyph is a minor. hopefully this is just a bug and will be changed. If it remains a major i don't see myself taking it. Also not available until wrath. Apparently i am blind because the warrior version is indeed a major glyph as well. Still, it should be minor at least until they implement duel specs and duel glyphs.

MAJOR:

Glyph of Frenzied Regeneration - Item - World of Warcraft
Glyph of Mangle - Item - World of Warcraft -> not available until wrath
Glyph of Maul - Item - World of Warcraft
Glyph of Rip - Item - World of Warcraft
Glyph of Shred - Item - World of Warcraft

At 70, my 3 minors will be challenging roar, dash, and unburdened rebirth. When wrath is released i will be changing the unburdened rebirth for thorns, then at 80 going back to rebirth.

My 2 majors at 70 will probably be frenzied regen and maul. I will probably keep them for leveling, mangle duration and shred are sub-par for leveling because you spam mangle and never shred except once a fight. Rip, you usually use ferocious bite as a finisher while leveling anyway and when you do rip it will be dead before those 2 extra ticks anyway. I may switch the shred one in at 70-73ish, but I am a) not sure which one to drop, and b) will be going back to it as soon as mobs have enough hp to still be alive after pounce->mangle->shred-> rake-> FB and the mangle/shred ratio starts getting into the 4:1 range and higher.

V. Talent Builds

None of my level 70 specs will include Omen of Clarity or Berserk- This has been changed based off of new threat values i recieved (see below). Even though my original testing that OoC cannot proc off maul turning out to be false, the threat from RnT and Berserk far outways OoC and allows you to take 2 more points in feral that before. This is a personal preference though.

A. Tank

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft - heroic/10 man main tank: This build is for those who are just starting out and are undergeared. Most of the time you will not have a warrior for Demo Shout or Thunderclap, this build is based around the druid having to keep them up while tanking. Threat will be a little low with this build so you may have to tell your DPS to relax some at the start of pulls.
variants of this build->
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft Doing 5 mans and heroics are really the only time you will be raged starved, with the new threat numbers this is really the only time where i feel OoC is almost a must. Anything past that bosses hit so hard that you get full rage from a single swing.
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft You take the points out of Feral Aggression because you still have demo shout without it, if you take the points out of IF, you lose the ability completely. This will also greatly increase threat of maul, mangle, and swipe.
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft This is for someone who is fully geared in badge/ZA gear, maybe you are not in a 25 man guild or maybe you are an alt that just does 10 mans, you might run with a warrior but not having Thunderclap just means more rage and does not put your life in jeopardy. I have the 2 points in brutal impact because these top builds are based on mitigation. In 5 and 10 mans brutal impact even in t6 going back to those places can be vital if a healer gets put out of commission, but they are really interchangeable with maxing out naturalist.

25 man main tank

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft This is the highest threat build at 70 short of sacrificing points in natural reaction or thick hide. You will always have your arms warrior doing demo and TC, you will be slamming maul because rage is never an issue with a progression 25 man boss hitting you.
variants of this build->
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft points in Imp LOTP. Progression bosses are very taxing on healers, sacrificing 2% total damage. I would like to have taken the points from Feral instinct, but they are needed to progress further down the tree.


B. Hybrid PvE

Before I get into hybrid builds, I would like to post some cat data, taken from when rend and tear was 10% damage at 5 points. Note, this is strictly for cat form dps.

This is a rough relative value evaluation (measurements are in Kitty Points, or Attack Power equivalents):

Talent Ferocity:AP = 62.0109 (12.4022 per Talent Point)
Talent Feral Aggression:AP = 0 (0 per Talent Point)
Talent Shredding Attacks:AP = 1203.6127 (601.8063 per Talent Point)
Talent Primal Precision:AP = 126.6808 (63.3404 per Talent Point)
Talent Savage Fury:AP = 54.2102 (27.1051 per Talent Point)
Talent King of the Jungle:AP = 906.42 (302.14 per Talent Point)
Talent Predatory Instincts:AP = 582.768 (194.256 per Talent Point)
Talent Improved Mangle:AP = 74.645 (24.8817 per Talent Point)
Talent Rend and Tear:AP = 137.0766 (27.4153 per Talent Point)
Talent Berserk:AP = 379.8602 (379.8602 per Talent Point)
Talent Naturalist:AP = 752.8081 (150.5616 per Talent Point)
Talent Omen of Clarity:AP = 1421.343 (1421.343 per Talent Point)
Talent Genesis:AP = 62.6788 (12.5358 per Talent Point)
Talent Master Shapeshifter:AP = 235.2462 (117.6231 per Talent Point)

As you can see, even with a buff to 20% damage, rend and tear would still be significantly far behind KOTJ and PI. I have still not been able to confirm if the master shapeshifter pTP is out of 5 to include the 3 wasted points in NSS.

10/25 man main tank/off tank: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (this is the build I plan on going probably). This is for people who will be main tanks in 25 mans and will only DPS on single tank fights. This spec is also for those who will run 10 mans as the main tank with either a prot pally or arms/fury warrior offtank. Move the 2 points into Naturalist from brutal impact for more threat.

10/25 man off tank/DPS: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft . This is for those who will be offtanking fights like Fathom Lord, Akama, one of Kael’s advisors/weapons, Veras in the Council encounter, and Mother lashes, (but not fights like Leo, Anetheron, Azgolor, Supremus, or Bloodboil), and will be in cat most of the time. This one is probably the trickiest role to balance, simply because of the difference in TPS per point and APE per point. I posted the build with naturalist maxed only because its already a more cat-centric build. Its basically 71 TPS in bear with Rend and Tear or about 300 APE in cat with naturalist.

C. DPS PvE

10/25 man pure cat build: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft. This is saying that your raid has 3 other prot warriors/pallies or feral druids. Maybe you will tank a platform on lurker or alars adds in phase 1 or one of the 1st 2 weapons to die on kael that you can tank in your DPS gear. There are no wear near as many cat talents as bear talents so you still get things like ILOTP or Brutal Impact. Scroll up to the numbers above and you can clearly see that OoC is a much better choice here, but again some people may want Berserk for the fun aspect, maybe your guild is stuck on Archimonde and the fear break would be huge, in which case you put the 6 points in rend and tear then berserk. If you do go with OoC, then the points go in NSS and MS (Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft).

D. PvP

PVP spec: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

pvp mana conservative spec: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft Omen of Clarity and and 1 point in NSS are interchangeable.

mana conserve build with berserk: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

in all the PVP builds, thick hide and feral instinct are interchangeable. I prefer the extra stealth but most people will probably disagree with me. If you do not play with a healer, do not bother with NI in my opinion, your mana pool is to small and the % on NI to small to keep you alive long enough.

E. Leveling

80 is just a whole new can of worms which i will not get into in this guide, look for a WOTLK guide to be out sometime after my guild has killed Naxx and Malegoes.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft is my current leveling build on beta ATM.

I really like that 1 point in brutal impact actually and it is not just randomly thrown in there, without it a lot of the time the pounce->mangle-> shred will just barely get off before pounce ends, that 1 point adds some leeway when tigers fury is on CD. Shredding attacks, and if you read about glyphs you will notice a disparity, but if i pounce, mangle, shred, rake, ferocious bite, then the mob till be dead or will tick out to the bleeds in a second or 2. At any point you can take the points out of shredding attacks though if you wish.

71: omen
72-74: feral instinct, personal preference but i like the added stealth levels it gives. if not, start in on rend and tear.
FI build 75-79: rend and tear
rend and tear build 72-76: rend and tear 77-78: max brutal impact and IW 79: either NI or imp mark

My plan with this spec is to quest and only do instances once or twice if there are quests in them, I will be fine tanking without protector of the pack and natural reaction (just keeping demo and IW up) because of my gear. I am not sure how people in heroic/kara gear with this spec will fair while tanking instances.

So for those people i would recommend this build, again getting OoC and Berserk in whichever order you like, Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft. From the below spec, you gain the 60 energy proc on Tiger's Fury, but lose 6% dodge in bear. From the above build, you gain 30% damage on swipe and 12% mitigation in instances for 18 energy off shred (so instead of going pounce->mangle-> shred you just go pounce->mangle spam), 1/2 a second on bash and pounce duration, and PI.

72: Finish IW
73-75: PI
76-79: RnT



BEAR LEVELING BUILD: this is if you plan to be mostly tanking instances while leveling, if you were inspired by Xav's video.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft get one at 70 the other at 71 between berserk and omen.

72: Finish IW
73-75: KOTJ
76-79: rend and tear

The best way to level with this spec when not in an instance is to agro 2/3 mobs in bear at a time with the maul glyph and just spam swipe and maul, using enrage as much as possible. Then go cat kill one mob (once you get KOTJ), get Tiger's Fury on cooldown, then another pull in bear with enrage etc. With imp LOTP giving mana, this should not be a problem.

No Berserk Build: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

71-72: Finish KOTJ
73-74: Finish IW
75: Feral Instinct
76: Berserk
77: Feral Instinct
78-79: RnT

the one downside to this build is in my 1st leveling build, i like to be able to agro 6 mobs when berserk comes up and just rip them apart with the maul + maul glyph + berserk. Also, if you accidentally pull 4-5 mobs, while you should not die if you go bear immediatly, maybe you were at low health healing up when they spawned on you, well berserk gives you that OH %$^ button. You also lose out on 40 energy every 30 seconds. The reason i dont like this is because energy is your biggest down time while leveling, as opposed to the RNG of cat MS, you may crit 2 mangles and a FB in a row and drop a mob instantly, but a) you can do that anyway without MS, and b) if you dont crit on 3-4 consecutive specials, than you are sitting there waiting for energy to return. What you do gain is the reason people overlook this talent in PVE, the 30% reduce mana cost while leveling will not be totally useless like it would in a raid. But again there is a downside, before you had to shift out to loot quest ground spawns and use quest items on corpses/objects, that was always one of the biggest mana problems i faced while leveling. That combined with Imp LOTP returning mana, i do not forsee mana being an issue while leveling.

What i will probably do is start with the 1st leveling build i posted, then respec at 76 when i can get all 3 berserk, OoC, and MS .

VI. Useful Links

The Druid Wiki » home - invaluable resource for druids, I would like to credit one of the authors there, Toskk, for his help with this write-up
Druid - WotlkWiki - Wrath of the Lich King Information
World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Feral 3.0 FAQ FAQ for the more casual aspects i had neither the time nor the space to cover

I would like to thank Bloodwraith for his help with the formatting and Cider and Tankspot for giving me the chance to do this.
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Darksend | Darkneskilla | I'm not feral, I'm a Bear - A Feral Blog


Last edited by Darksend; 10-14-2008 at 06:37 AM..
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Old 10-12-2008, 05:16 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
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reserved just in case. also going to edit in more pvp builds once 3.0 goes live and i get some feedback from some pvpers i play with.


Item links are fixed, if you see any broken links still let me know.

edited the main post after finding the numbers i've been looking for not an hour after i post it.

this is the TPS per point chart from EJ.
Savage Fury: 357.19
LotP: 197.77
Primal Precision: 173.17
Rend & Tear: 117.54
Predatory Strikes: 101.2
Naturalist: 93.86
Imp Mangle: 89.74
Predatory Instincts: 86.08
Sharpened Claws: 79.11
Protector of the Pack: 65.1
Feral Instinct: 41.88
Shapeshifter (5): 41.3
SotF: 26.19

need to double check the following confirmations

OoC and maul -> confirmed with SS
imp LOTP and mana -> confirmed on PTR, takes about 25 seconds to regen 600 mana, OOMed myself went into cat at around 900 mana crit a target dummy, had 600 mana when i left cat 4 seconds after shiting in.
PI 10% critical damage bonus only affecting cat (still dont know how to test that one though) - confirmed PI does not affect bear crits, SSs added to original post.


pasting here to preserve if needed

V. 1-70 Changes
  • Energy- now ticks regardless of form.
  • Swipe (updated for 3.1)- The Bear Form and Dire Bear Form version of this ability no longer has a targeting requirement and hits targets behind the druid and to the sides.
  • Faerie Fire (Feral) (updated for 3.1)- is now a trained base ability (level 18 same as normal faerie fire). When used in bear, it will both do damage and generate extra threat. In bear for it will now do damage equal to 15% of your AP up for 5%. Now lasts 5 minutes in pve up from 40 (still has a pvp duration of 40) - this change also applies to normal Faerie Fire. To keep it in line with the other changes to ArP mechanics it now reduces armor by 5% instead of a flat ammount.
  • Tiger's Fury- is now a 30 second cooldown and costs no energy, off GCD.
  • Barkskin - now usable in forms.
  • Entangling Roots - now usable inside.
  • Nature’s grasp - now a trained ability, at the old 5/5 talented 100% chance, also usable in forms.
  • Revive - Druids new out of combat rez.
  • Growl - 30 yards to match the warrior and death knight equivalents.
  • Challenging roar - down to 3 minutes.
  • Dash - down to 3 minutes.
  • Maim (updated for 3.1)- This ability is now considered a stun, and shares a diminish category with all other stuns. It no longer has a chance to break from the target taking damage. Duration lowered to 1 second per combo point.
  • Frenzied regen - will now heal for 30% of your hp if all 100 rage is consumed.
  • Maul - now affected by mangle/trauma.
  • Hurricane - cooldown removed.
  • Rake - damage greatly increased, better DPS than mangle but less than shred.
  • Rip - AP contribution increased on 5CP, previously 4 and 5 points rips received the same AP %.
  • Green armor values removed from leather items. THIS WILL BE UPDATED in the near future to include GC's most recent remarks about bonus armor and the bear modifier once the bear modifier is announced.
  • Weapon procs (such as mongoose and executioner) will now proc in forms.
  • Healthstones, Potions, and the like can now be used in forms. You can also mine, herb, and use quest items in form as well.
  • Abolish Poison (updated for 3.1): Now ticks every 3 seconds, up from every 2. Now lasts 12 seconds, up from 8.
  • Innervate (updated for 3.2): This spell no longer costs mana. This ability has been redesigned to grant 225% of the casting Druid's base mana pool to the target over 10 seconds. Cooldown reduced to 3 minutes.
  • Lifebloom (updated for 3.1): Mana cost of all ranks doubled. When Lifebloom blooms or is dispelled, it now refunds half the base mana cost of the spell per application of Lifebloom, and the heal effect is multiplied by the number of applications.
  • Pounce (updated for 3.1): No longer affected by diminishing returns with other stuns, however, it now shares a diminishing return with Cheap Shot (Rogue).
  • New ability: Savage Defense (added in 3.1): Trainable at level 40 with Dire Bear Form as a prerequisite.
    When the druid deals a melee critical strike, it gains a physical damage shield equal to 25% of its attack power. The next hit completely consumes the shield, regardless of how much damage was done. Only active in Bear Form.
  • Enrage (updated for 3.2): Now generates 20 initial rage and 10 rage over 10 seconds, for 30 rage. Armor penalty unchanged.

VI. 71-80 Additions
  • Swift Flight Form - available from a trainer at level 71. Still requires 300 riding skill.
  • New ability: Savage Roar (updated for 3.1) - available from a trainer at level 75.
    Now considered an Enrage effect and now increases physical damage done by 30% instead of increasing attack power
    25 energy 100 yard range Requires Cat Form
    Finishing move that increases physical damage done by 30%. Lasts longer per combo point:
    1 point : 14 seconds
    2 points: 19 seconds
    3 points: 24 seconds
    4 points: 29 seconds
    5 points: 34 seconds
  • New spell: Nourish - 18% base mana 40 yard range 1.5sec cast. Heals a friendly target for 1883 to 2187. Heals for an additional 20% if you have a Rejuvenation, Regrowth, or Lifebloom effect active on the target
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Old 10-12-2008, 01:40 PM
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This is fantastic Darksend, thanks for doing such a good writeup. Very helpful suggestions, and you've done a lot of the work for us, saving some respeccing costs for me at least further down the line. I cant wait to try out some wild aoe tanking in a heroic come tuesday night. Im gonna pick the most fun talents, rather than the most sensible one - I dont suppose it will really matter. But you're points about using shred, rip etc, and glyph priorities while levelling were a great reminder too

Thanks also for the gear tips; they are very useful. I'd completely forgotten about all thos rings/necks etc that have no defense on them, and I'm looking forward to a bit of regemming. I doubt very much we'll ever see sunwell, but at least we'll have a chance to finish BT in the coming weeks.
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Old 10-13-2008, 11:06 AM
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Wow really nice write up. Thank u so much for putting in the time to do this !!!
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Old 10-13-2008, 11:14 AM
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NP, welcome to the site.
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Old 10-14-2008, 02:36 AM
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Nice to see all this spelled out. Had not even considered what major glyphs to use until reading. Very well done.

Last edited by AngerIssues; 10-14-2008 at 02:45 AM..
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Old 10-14-2008, 06:23 AM
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It makes me curious that your Cat DPS build doesn't including Omen of Clarity when you write its 100% for DPS (with offtanking possible). Omen of Clarity has a PPM of 3.5, so assuming it gets used on 1 mangle, 2 shreds and "half" a rip, thats 42 * 2 + 40 + 30 / 2 = 139 energy per minute for 1 talent point, higher than King of the Jungles optimal 120 energy per minute. I wouldn't consider Berserk important for a 3.0 pre-WotLK DPS build.

With that said, i like the writeup. I didn't get through it all, but i might later, and ill try to correct stuff if i can, but here is for starters.

1) Powershifting isn't dead
With the new Furor, you can now powershift into Bear Form instead of Cat Form when your Cat energy gets low, and do Mangle/Maul in Bear and then go cat again.

Note that these tests are unbuffed. They might change raidbuffed.

Tests using Cat Form only:
1227 DPS
1176 DPS
1202 DPS
1198 DPS

Tests using Cat and Bear Form:
1347 DPS
1349 DPS
1376 DPS

Rotation in bear was usually: Bear -> Enrage if ready -> Lacerate + white hit -> Mangle -> Maul - > Additional Maul if rage allows -> Cat with approximately 80-95 energy

The rotation allows you to use Ferocious Bite because you don't rely on Rip for Rend and Tear to be effective. You can use Lacerate instead, which means that you can combine Rip and FB using excess energy from OoC procs and Tigers Fury with KotJ.

It will probably not be as effective at level 80 because of Savage Roar only working in Cat Form, meaning that the Cat white damage is higher there. With that said, i was pulling 6k burst damage combos on the PTR (2.5k Mangles followed by 3.5k Mauls on Sundered target dummy with Enrage up) in the very short time i was in bear, and i imagine this going much higher in WotLK or when raid buffs are introduced.

2) Cat Form charge activates the Bear Form charge 15 sec cooldown
You probably know, but i think it would be worth mentioning.

Ill read on later and give more feedback. Regards and Excellent work!
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Old 10-14-2008, 06:35 AM
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Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

that build? look how many spare points there are.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

if you meant that one then yes thats a mistake, my links broke somehow and i thought i fixed them all properly, thats supposed to have 1 spare point as well thanks for finding that.


as for powershifting, i noted it on the wow forums but not here when someone asked for it, i talked about a post i had read on the druid forums about "powershifting 2.0" and i touched on it briefly. but i see you are EU and that post was on the US thread, DOH.

but to answer your question yes i have heard of this.


2) yes, thank you. I did know about it but i totally forgot to add it. Does feral charge bear do the same if used and then shifting into cat i totally never checked becuase i didnt think of it.
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Old 10-14-2008, 07:38 AM
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Missed the details on the build that it had 6 spare points. My mistake.

Bear Charge also activates a 15 second cooldown on Cat Charge yes.


Edit: Btw, if you are using 2 piece Tier6, you can skip Shredding Attacks because Manglespam with Improved Mangle with an energy cost of 29 is equal DPS to Shred then, even with Rend and Tear. That right there saves you 7 talent points if you also, for the same reason, decide to skip Rend and Tear.

Example build: 0/49/11 - With 11 points to spare for level 80. Also means you can pick up Master Shapeshifter for DPS.

Last edited by Athinira; 10-14-2008 at 07:44 AM..
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Old 10-14-2008, 07:51 AM
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Source: Athinira
Missed the details on the build that it had 6 spare points. My mistake.

Bear Charge also activates a 15 second cooldown on Cat Charge yes.


Edit: Btw, if you are using 2 piece Tier6, you can skip Shredding Attacks because Manglespam with Improved Mangle with an energy cost of 29 is equal DPS to Shred then, even with Rend and Tear. That right there saves you 7 talent points if you also, for the same reason, decide to skip Rend and Tear.

Example build: 0/49/11 - With 11 points to spare for level 80. Also means you can pick up Master Shapeshifter for DPS.
toskk put his new DPS 3.0 calculator out last night, it shows otherwise
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Old 10-14-2008, 09:19 AM
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toskk put his new DPS 3.0 calculator out last night, it shows otherwise
Not from where I'm sitting. Toskk's calc is good, but the problem is that it doesn't support proper mangle-only rotations yet. With a Mangle rotation you can push out alot more finishing moves, including Ferocious Bite between the 16 sec Rips (19 sec with Naxx 2 piece), but that calc doesn't support that.

So the best rotation you can simulate is Mangle to 5 CP, Rip, and that only puts it around 15% behind the best Shred rotation including Savage Roar. If it could simulate an actual rotation where the user spams Mangle, uses Roar, uses Shred when OOC procs since the 60 energy is free anyways, im confident it will compete.

I'm off to work. You are welcome to post some calcs while I'm gone for ~3 hours.
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Old 10-14-2008, 01:47 PM
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"So most likely you will still be using your same gear"

I can definitely understand this being the case at lvl 70 (especially with the gear you are sporting). But I was wondering about lvl 80 content - it looks like we're just going to be wearing rogue gear and socketing/gemming for tanking.

Is this accurate? I have not been in the beta but I've been attempting to keep up with news sites to get an idea of the type of armor we'll be wearing to tank. I haven't seen any leather items that appear specifically itemized for druid tanking. I'm not suggesting this is a problem, just wanted a solid answer on what kind of gear we can expect to be wearing come level 80.

Anyone have a specific experience with this? Ideally, I'd love to see a screenshot or sample set up of a druid's gear while tanking Naxx with a premade lvl 80 toon. Any info is appreciated.
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Old 10-21-2008, 11:53 AM
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thanks for the info... been waiting for this type of thing
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Old 10-21-2008, 12:35 PM
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Fantastic write-up. Looking forward to raiding updates post WotLK.

Looks like [Green] is the new [Purple] again
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Old 10-21-2008, 12:55 PM
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As a 68 druid who has been thrown into absolute disarray and panic over the last week or so, this is a lifesaver. I have my direction back, even if its way different than before.

Thank you so much.
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Old 10-21-2008, 03:54 PM
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Fantastic write-up. Looking forward to raiding updates post WotLK.

Looks like [Green] is the new [Purple] again

Why do you say that? From my understanding T4/T5 or badge equive gear will last us into the mid 70's until we have to start replacing with quest/instance gear. Is this correct?

(sorry for thread hijack but I wanna know )
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Old 10-21-2008, 05:34 PM
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Nice writeup. Thanks.
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Old 10-21-2008, 08:43 PM
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Thanks for the update. It's been my experience that feral charge (cat) puts me behind the mob's I'm charging. Whether this is due to server lag or a bug or it's just the way it works, I actually have to factor in the aggro range of mobs beyond my target before I actually charge. On many occasions, I forget to do that and end up pulling more mobs from beyond.
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Old 10-22-2008, 06:05 AM
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Thanks Darksend, I haven't had much time to research the new stuff lately. This is a huge help!
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Old 10-23-2008, 01:33 AM
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yay !!! it is wonderful to see somethings about druids... i wasnt event visiting the site because of all warrior posts ^^
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