[Dîger]

mkey

i didnt look up the exact numbers just thought as i saw that that maybe blizzard took that as an indication for the value since dmg due to AP i mitigated by armor and inate threat isnt therefore they might have rounded down.
just an idea :-)

[talisfears]

Source: Satrina 1st Devastate: 877 total damage, 207557 threat. Normalise to 1001 and subtract (877) 877 to get 124 innate threat 2nd Devastate: 3138 total damage, 702293 threat. Normalise to 3387 and subtract (3138 + 124) 3262 to get 125 innate threat 3rd Devastate: 3672 total damage, 838729 threat. Normalise to 4045 and subtract (3672 + 249) 3921 to get 124 innate threat 4th Devastate: 6628 total damage, 1477366 threat. Normalise to 7125 and subtract (6628 + 373) 7001 to get 124 innate threat 5th Devastate: 8830 total damage, 1959662 threat. Normalise to 9451 and subtract (8830 + 497) 9327 to get 124 innate threat 6th Devastate: 9591 total damage, 2117662 threat. Normalise to 10213 and subtract (9591 + 621) 10212 to get 1 innate threat ... 20th Devastate: 35689 total damage, 7889875 threat. Normalise to 38051 and subtract (35689 + 2238) 37927 to get 124 innate threat

This part is confusing me. At first with the 6th devastate doing 1 innate threat I thought for sure the 5%*AP bonus is only while sunders are going up. Then on the 20th it looks like the bonus is back.

However, digging into your math for the 20th, I see you added 2238 threat for the 19 previous devastates. Yet 2238/124.3 = 18. Does this mean that the 6th devastate is the only one not getting the bonus threat? That doesn't make any sense. Any idea what the deal is? Am I just missing something glaringly obvious (as I've been known to)?

[Satrina]

Oh, I used the wrong data set there haha. Looking at my data spreadsheet, I see that I missed with the 6th Devastate on that one. Oops.

Edit: Actually, I'll just leave it. Good illustrator - even with a missed Devastate, it out-threats Sunder!

Good catch!

[Ciderhelm]

Dots is reporting that Vigilance is now transferring 10% threat.

[Satrina]

Ooh, nice. I'll confirm that today when I am testing.

[etakerns]

I understand partilally what is being said in these threads here but i still don't understand the formulas used in figuring all these numbers out.

P.S. I feel lost in the sauce.

[Lore]

Source: etakerns P.S. I feel lost in the sauce.

If you make it through the night, everything will be alright.

[kolben]

Meaning Vigilance takes 10% of the applied targets TPS and gives it to the warrior that put it on them?

Thanks for doing the work on this Satrina. I'll admit it's a bit above my head, but I get it eventually

[Satrina]

Vigilance

I cast vigilance on my mage friend, then went and aggro'd a mob and let it beat on me for a second. Mage was not spec'd frost, so his threat multiplier (for UI reported threat) is 100. Mage proceeded to beat down the mob with Frostbolts:

Frosbolt 1: 2113 total damage. 211300 total threat; my threat: 21130, mage threat: 191070
Frosbolt 2: 4196 total damage. 419600 total threat; my threat: 41960, mage threat: 377640
Frostbolt 3: 5726 total damage. 572600 total threat; my threat: 57260, mage threat: 515340

Vigilance is reducing its target's threat by 10%, and transferring that 10% to you. The transferred threat is not modified by your stance modifier.

[Hypatia]

Might want to try that out on a melee class as well to see how the 0.8 modifier of the damage source interacts with the 10% siphon.

[Satrina]

We actually did it with fireballs (0.9/90 multiplier), then with frostbolt for numbers that weren't complicated by the DoT portion to write up. I expect it will work the same with a melee type, but will test to make sure.

[veneretio]

Does damage shield generate threat now?

[Satrina]

Dunno yet - it makes way too much noise when testing other things. I'll get around to it later.

[veneretio]

Source: Satrina Dunno yet - it makes way too much noise when testing other things. I'll get around to it later.

lol oh so you don't even spec into it as a result? (I thought they changed the sound on it)

[Satrina]

"noise" being a lot of numbers that are not relevant to my testing and have to be stripped out to get the results of what I am testing

I haven't had the sound in WoW turned on since 2004.

[Satrina]

Sunder has changed again. So far it's looking like the threat value is 350 + 5% of AP. I need to collect more data points to confirm.

I haven't done any Devastate measuring yet, but I'm guessing it has not changed from damage + 5% AP.

[Satrina]

Build 8982 - Glyph of Sunder:

Starting off with the assumption that Sunder threat when split between two mobs will follow the form of Sunder on one mob (threat = m*AP + k), I collected some data. I also took a wild guess that m for split Sunders would be 0.05 as it is on normal Sunders.

threat		AP	t - 0.05AP
303.2457	2618	172.3457
298.7461	2506	173.4461
293.7449	2406	173.4449
286.2503	2278	172.3503
276.2479	2078	172.3479
259.7454	1724	173.5454
246.7470	1406	176.447
235.2496	1284	171.0496
226.2503	986	176.9503
215.7463	806	175.4463

Here we see the threat generated by Sunders on two mobs (each mob got the same amount of threat) and the attack power the test was made at. The third column shows the remainder of the threat after subtracting 0.05AP from the total.

Looks like Glyph of Sunder delivers around {173 - 175} + 5% AP to each mob. I'll have to get more data points to pin down the base, but that will wait for a few builds to make sure the basic formula doesn't change first. Curve fitting to the (too small) raw data set gives 176.8 ± 1.635 + 0.04833 ± 0.0008540AP, but I expect that it's really 0.05AP and the base number is closer to 173-175 - probably 172.5, given that'd be half of the 345 a Sunder on a single mob gives.

[Satrina]

Build 8982 - Damage Shield

Damage shield is generating threat (contrary to random reports otherwise). It's generating one normalised threat per point of damage done. Stance modifiers apply, so it is generating 207.35 UI threat per damage done in Defensive Stance, and 80 UI threat per damage done in Battle Stance or Berserker Stance.

[Makhno]

I'm confused by Satrina's claims that Shield Bash does damage. I just tested it on the PTR, and it does 0 damage, and has done 0 damage in every single PTR build since PTRs went up. (In fact, Shield Bash hitting a target does not even register in the combat log - all I see when Shield Bashing something that isn't casting a spell is the effect of Gag Order being applied.) What's going on here?

[Satrina]

You are correct - sometime after I last tested Shield Bash (on beta, not PTR) they removed the damage component. Only the 36 innate threat remains.