[Bostung]

Source: Satrina Big news #1: Devastate still applies Sunder Armour. However, you no longer get the threat from the Sunder that was applied. You get the threat from the damage dealt by the Devastate plus 5% of your attack power as threat.

I didn't give this much thought when I first read it, but now I'm realizing that that's a pretty big drop in threat at normal AP values. Devastate on live does an average of about 450 threat while stacking sunders which would require 9000 AP, and after 5 sunders it does 176, which would require 3520 AP. Neither of those values seems very realistic for a tank at 70, even with the new strength-gear philosophy.

[Orz]

Source: Satrina Also keep in mind that while the UI is reporting 250000 threat for your Devastate, it's also reporting 270000 threat for the 3k Pyroblast the mage just shot.

Okay, so it's not a 1:1, DPS=TPS for damage, it's much higher. I didn't understand that.

Having finished The Nexus a little while ago, that's definately true, too. I lost hate to the Hunter and the Mage until I finally calmed them down and not try to melt faces right at the start of the battle.

[Dots]

Source: Lore Using the necromancers in the Ruby Dragon Shrine, and Satrina's threat mod (which simply outputs your current threat to chat log every time it gets an update from the server). Stood in front of a mob, had Cider spell reflect off me, got the same exact threat number from the server.

Well, I don't know how that mod works or if the threat just needs a while to update or something, ZThreatMeter : WoWInterface Downloads : WotLK Beta is what I am using. The person that I reflect the spell for gets credit for the threat. After that I go in to melee the mob and the mod is accurate in predicting the point where I will pull aggro, so I assume it works fine. It just pulls the numbers from the game anyway.
At least with this mod, the reflecting warrior has to be in combat to see the updated threat from the reflected spell right away.

[Khordam]

A thing to consider with spell reflect threat: Could it be that some mob spells do not generate threat, not even for their damage done, while others do? Just like with only some spells being reflectable, or only some of them eating your SR charge...

[phaze]

Source: Orz That is if DPS damage is 1:1 threat and healing is 1:.5 threat, still.

The actual amount of threat hasn't changed for base damage/healing/etc. Just how it's represented, since we now can see how the game passes the value around.

1 damage : 100 threat. Healing threat is still 50% of equivalent damage. This value shifts depending on threat boosters/reducers, just like always.

Converting between old and new views is easy: either add 2 zeros, or take 2 away.

[Dîger]

2 questions.

first: did u use ur normal omen version which usually is out of date on a ptr/beta server


and if yes ive tried to identify the stance multiplier on the ptr

patch8970

i got ~1.66 multiplier is that right?
and if yes

any explanations?


-----------


ok as for battle/bersi stance i get ~0.8157

and omen doesnt show any threat due to dodge parry block well...how do u measure ur total threat on the ptr if omen is useless..

[Satrina]

Source: Dîger 2 questions

I refer you to the very first post in this thread.

[jere]

Just a question Satrina, is it possible that the threat for dodge/parry/block comes from the berserking talent (Improved Def Stance I think)?

[Satrina]

It's been suggested. I'll despec today to test it.

Edit: Confirmed that threat gain from dodge/parry/block is a side effect of Improved Defensive Stance.

[Satrina]

Sparan was good enough to find me a Glyph of Sunder Armor - thanks!

Three tests: Attack with a Devastate and attack with a Sunder. Then a final one to check single target Sunder. I had 2618AP

Devastate
Confirmed that attacking with Devastate applies Sunder to target 2.

Target 1: 329 melee damage, gained 95173 threat. Normalise to 459 threat, and remove 329 white damage to leave 130 threat.

Target 2: Gained 26955 threat. Normalise to 130 threat

130 threat is 5% of AP. We're getting the normal Devastate threat on target 1 (expected). We're only getting the 5% AP Devastate threat for the Sunder on on target 2, rather than the 18% AP Sunder Armour threat.

Sunder
Target 1: Gained 26955 threat. Normalise to 130 threat
Target 2: Gained 26955 threat. Normalise to 130 threat

We seem to get the 5% Devastate threat amount for both Sunders, even when using Sunder Armour to apply. That seems wrong.

Single Target with Glyph
I attacked a single mob with a Sunder Armour

The target 26955 threat. I normalise that to 130 threat, again 5% of attack power. That's definitely a bug.


I'll put this up on the WLK forums for Ghostcrawler to look at, to see if it's what is intended.

[Satrina]

Re-tested spell reflect. Got my friend to load up the threat addon to monitor what's going on and get on his mage. Here's what we got:

1) I go in and social aggro the mob (level 68 Dragonflayer Death Weaver in Fjord)

2) He shoots it in the face with a fireball for initial 2978 damage + 4 ticks of 33 damage from the DoT

3) Mob casts shadow bolt at mage, which I reflect

4) I finish killing the mob to preserve the mage's threat.

On initial hit, mage gets 268020 threat. The ticks each add 2970 threat for the 33 damage. At the end of the DoT ticking, he had 344710 threat, where we expect him to have 279900 threat from just the pure damage. The difference is 64810 threat. The reflected spell dealt 648 damage, so there we have it.

What's different between my test today and the test I did yesterday? Nothing! As happened yesterday, the threat from the reflected spell did not appear immediately on the threat count. The threat count updated when the spell reflect occurred, but it repeated the previous threat number. This is what led us to believe that no threat was generated by the reflected spell.

However, the third tick of the Fireball DoT was a bump of 67780 threat, rather than the expected 2970. The mage did indeed gain the threat from the reflected damage, just delayed a little bit.

We conclude that when you reflect a spell for an ally, your ally gains the threat for the damage that the reflected spell deals.

[Roana]

Source: Satrina People gripe about the awful new representation - but when was the last time you talked about your shield slam threat as 459 + (damage x 1.495) instead of 307 + damage, with the implied multiplication for stance? We will still talk about threat values in ther normalised forms as we always have. Whether you refer to the stance modifier as 207.35 or 2.0735 is irrelevant to pretty much all discussions of threat.

That is true, but I believe what you're seeing is merely Blizzard using a fixed point representation instead of floating point numbers for threat. There is not much need for more accuracy than 1/100 of a point of damage when calculating threat, so fixed point arithmetic is entirely enough.

From a practical perspective, the human brain is also not designed for dealing with large numbers -- or more precisely, numbers with lots of digits (there's a reason why we have a plethora of terms, from kilo to yotta, that allow us to strip trailing zeroes of numbers -- if necessary, after rounding --, and why there's scientific notation that allows us to write, e.g, Planck's constant with some 30 fewer zeros). More technically, we have limited bandwidth for our information-processing capacity: See Miller's seminal paper, "The Magical Number Seven, Plus or Minus Two: Some Limits on Our Capacity for Processing Information.

[Dîger]

Source: Satrina I refer you to the very first post in this thread.

i did read your post

still your self writtenprogram... would u send it to me?

and does it work on the ptr?

[Ciderhelm]

Gonna bump this up as news again a little later today to make sure it's still visible above the fold Monday. (may just move the youtube video off for now)

[Satrina]

Source: Dîger i did read your post still your self writtenprogram... would u send it to me? and does it work on the ptr?

Where to get the threat addon (post#5 of this thread)

It should work just fine on PTR.

[Satrina]

My guild's GM did some MS/BT/TM testing, and some other random bits:

Victory rush is plain damage for threat Rend is 1:1 damage, regardless of talents. Slam has an embedded threat value equal to it's damage bonus applied on top of the damage. That is regardless of the talent points in improved slam. It is a bit like heroic strike. The modifier (140 at level 70) is modulated by stance. Mortal strike threat per damage with tactical mastery is the same as TBC, 1.00 with no talent or berserker stance or combat stance 1.21 with 1/3 tact mastery 1.42 with 2/3 tact mastery 1.63 with 3/3 tact mastery Trauma application (crit with the talent) seem to cause an update of the threat value, but this update is equal to 0. Retaliation is 1:1 threat per damage, modulated by stance. Whirlwinds (coming from bladestorm) cause 1.25 threat per damage, modified by stance (so 3284 bladestorm damage in defensive stance generates 851169 API threat)

[Warwench]

Source: Lore It looks like the direction they're taking with tanking in Wrath is that your DPS'ers should really not be able to pull aggro off of you as long as you're pushing buttons. Overall I think it'll make the game more fun to play for the DPS'ers, since they won't be threat capped. Makes tanking more fun as well, since you're now focusing more on doing damage than doing threat.

I hope this is what they are doing.

[phaze]

Oops, missed this over the weekend, when discussing Anger Management:

Source: Satrina I'd be surprised if it did not generate threat.

One way to find out!

I'm still betting on AM just being a modified decay level (no threat attached), but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

[Dîger]

btw.

SA 18% threat of AP = 2.6/14 ?^^

[Satrina]

No, 2.6/14 = 0.185714285

You walk up with 2618AP and Sunder a mob. The reported threat I get is 97712. Now divide out the defensive stance modifier (97712/207.25) to get 471 normalised threat.
471/2618 = 0.180000711. 18% of AP.