[Satrina]

Yeah, I was happy to see it at first, then realised it pretty much is nothing. It's actually only 1 threat when normalised back from defensive stance.

[Satrina]

Improved Spell Reflect: You gain no threat for reflecting spells targeted at other allies.

[Ciderhelm]

Source: Satrina Improved Spell Reflect: You gain no threat for reflecting spells targeted at other allies.

So the question is:

1. Was this changed in one of the last two builds? or
2. Did we observe something different when Lore and I were playing with it?

[tobarstep]

Source: Satrina Improved Spell Reflect: You gain no threat for reflecting spells targeted at other allies.

Do those allies get the threat though? I've heard "yes", which would make me think it's not a talent I'd actually want to use.

[Lore]

Source: tobarstep Do those allies get the threat though? I've heard "yes", which would make me think it's not a talent I'd actually want to use.

I'd imagine it's usually better to let them get a little threat than to let them take damage >.>

EDIT: Cider and I just tested it, I got no threat for him reflecting spells off of me.

[SoaD!]

Thank you Satrina for putting numbers over the these theories developped since some weeks.

[Dots]

Source: Lore I'd imagine it's usually better to let them get a little threat than to let them take damage >.> EDIT: Cider and I just tested it, I got no threat for him reflecting spells off of me.

I hope you didn't do the test with level 5 mobs again because I got different results in Northrend. That was not in the most recent build though.

Edit: Just tested with a friend on harpies in Storm Peaks, using ZThreatMeter (and observing at what point the mob switches back). Spell Reflecting for someone else still gives that person threat and their own aggro modifiers apply, same as before. Really wonder what kind of test you were doing?

[izziT]

Devastate - Reduced to 50% of weapon damage from 80%.

I didn't see it mentioned anywhere earlier, but the changes are in build 8970

[Lore]

Source: Dots I hope you didn't do the test with level 5 mobs again because I got different results in Northrend. That was not in the most recent build though. Edit: Just tested with a friend on harpies in Storm Peaks, using ZThreatMeter (and observing at what point the mob switches back). Spell Reflecting for someone else still gives that person threat and their own aggro modifiers apply, same as before. Really wonder what kind of test you were doing?

Using the necromancers in the Ruby Dragon Shrine, and Satrina's threat mod (which simply outputs your current threat to chat log every time it gets an update from the server).

Stood in front of a mob, had Cider spell reflect off me, got the same exact threat number from the server.

[tobarstep]

Source: Lore I'd imagine it's usually better to let them get a little threat than to let them take damage >.>

I'd rather someone take a bit of damage than have them possibly pull aggro on a boss and get 1-shot. If it's your healer, sure. But if I have a threat-happy dps-er I'd rather them get damage over additional threat.

[Lore]

With current threat per second values in Wrath it would have to be one hell of a spell to make them pull aggro.

[Orz]

So, is Shockwave "Not Working As Intended?"

I notice you said it provided 0 innate threat, but the tooltip implies it provides a high amount of bonus threat on top of its damage.

And might I ask exactly how to read these numbers. It says Shockwave, in Defensive Stance, provides ~250k threat for only ~1.2k damage. Ummm, isn't that ... an insane amount of threat? Another post later said there is no dividing the threat numbers, that is that actual raw threat ... Does this mean that Omen displays threat differently, and that the 60k+ threat I built up against a boss last night not actually mean 60k? Is that 250k threat from Shockwave comparable to the 60k in Live on Omen last night, or two totally different ways of displaying the numbers?

I realize your number crunching was all done at level 80, and that obviously some end numbers will be much larger than at 70 ... but still, unless healing and DPS threat was drastically changed, I don't see how they'll pull threat off of us unless they are far into and above the 100k TPS, and possibly even drastically higher.

I must be misunderstanding your numbers, no?

(If a regular old tank and spank boss, had 1,000,000 hit points and I did 4 shockwaves that provided ~250k threat each, I could then leave my Warrior on autoattack and go make a sandwhich, mow the lawn, and come back later when the boss is dead, and it's all good. That is if DPS damage is 1:1 threat and healing is 1:.5 threat, still.)

[Lore]

It looks like the direction they're taking with tanking in Wrath is that your DPS'ers should really not be able to pull aggro off of you as long as you're pushing buttons.

Overall I think it'll make the game more fun to play for the DPS'ers, since they won't be threat capped. Makes tanking more fun as well, since you're now focusing more on doing damage than doing threat.

[Orz]

Okay, I can totally understand that and the reasoning behind that.

But, all this talk about tanking becoming trivial ... I was blowing it off, think that while doing multiple mobs might be easier but there'd still be, uhhhh, some kind of skill involved.

I wonder how they plan on making "end-game," or even just ordinary 5-mans and Heroics, interesting enough for a tank to play without us pulling a revolver out and shooting ourselves in the head while our characters tanks the entire dungeon with only my dead arm draping over the keyboard and keeping hate just fine.

Okay, that was a bit drastic and calls for a different post, of which there are already several at this site about the topic ...

But I'd still like to know about Shockwave. With these changes to threat multipliers, and 0 innate threat, when the tooltip for Shockwave says it provides a high amount of threat is that only because it does some good damage? If so, why put that in there at all?

[Satrina]

They took the "high amount of threat" off of shockwave a few patches ago.

[Orz]

Doh, shows me for not paying attention. Sorry for the confusion then. Well, time to go tank something in Northrend and see how hard it is to loose hate first hand.

Thank you for your time and efforts on threat, Satrina!

[Satrina]

Also keep in mind that while the UI is reporting 250000 threat for your Devastate, it's also reporting 270000 threat for the 3k Pyroblast the mage just shot.

[Kazeyonoma]

satrina to the rescue.

[Satrina]

Source: Ciderhelm So the question is: 1. Was this changed in one of the last two builds? or 2. Did we observe something different when Lore and I were playing with it?

I tested spell reflect with my friend in New Hearthglen today in build 8970. He aggro'd a caster and I spell reflected its spell on him and then went and whacked it upside the head with a stick. The only threat I gained was from the whacking. The only thing I can think of to maybe do differently is ensure I'm in combat when I reflect the spell, but I don't imagine that will make a difference.

[Lore]

Source: Satrina I tested spell reflect with my friend in New Hearthglen today in build 8970. He aggro'd a caster and I spell reflected its spell on him and then went and whacked it upside the head with a stick. The only threat I gained was from the whacking. The only thing I can think of to maybe do differently is ensure I'm in combat when I reflect the spell, but I don't imagine that will make a difference.

The question is, did he gain any threat for the reflect?