[Kamani]

Is the threat from avoidance pre or post defensive modifier?

I'm guessing no, given the 1207 from blocking after factoring in rage gain.

So it is pretty negligible. Equivalent to 2 threat per avoid in BC.

[OniNaito]

Source: Satrina So, we get the damage of the reflected spell modified by stance for spell reflect. * This answers one question - threat values are multiplied out by the full 207.35, then rounded prior to transport back to your client

I don't mean to rush you and I'm sure you've already thought about it, but just to be redundant:

What about just activating shield reflect? Does that generate a certain amount of threat and is it variable in any way? Also, when a spell is reflected off of a party member, was it determined who the threat went to or which players multiplier is used? I remember discussion arguing both sides but never read a final answer.

Thanks for this great post, it's awesome to already be seeing reliable threat calculations for 3.0 and beyond.

[Satrina]

Okay, new preliminary numbers for Sunder armour up in post #3. I'll be revisiting Devastate tomorrow for sure to see what's up.

[phaze]

Source: Armstrong does rage gain from damage taken and white damage dealt also generate 500 threat per rage?

Nope, regular rage generation doesn't cause threat.

[knagh]

in your data does the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th application of sunder armor include the threat from the previous ones? ie for

2618AP - 2 Sunders: 1776 damage, 567064 threat. Normalise to 2735. Less 1776 leaves 958 innate

you have three auto attacks and two sunders. each sunder is (958/2) threat, so 18% for each one, versus 18% for each stack.

[Lore]

Source: Horacio {Rage gen numbers} This is incredible.

It's actually exactly the same as on live. Everything's been multiplied by 100.

1 damage with no modifiers = 100 threat.

[Lore]

Satrina - Any testing on reflecting spells off of other people, as far as who gets the threat?

Also if you'd be willing, I'd love to tinker around with your mod to try and figure out the handful of Paladin "bonus threat" values =)

[Mr Maniac]

Shield Bash Shield bash hits pretty hard now, which is neat. Just two tests at different AP since I wasn't expecting much change: 2618AP: 460 damage, 102845 threat. Normalised threat is 496, and removing 460 damage leaves 36 innate threat 2044AP: 432 damage, 97039 threat. Normalised threat is 468, and removing 432 damage leaves 36 innate threat We conclude that Shield Bash has a flat 36 innate threat, independent of AP.

I'm not really clear on how this was calculated, I thought that Shield Bash didn't deal damage anymore.

[Evelaula]

Wow, thanks for finding this all out satrina. I'm sure there will be plenty of use for these numbers.

Its interesting how many of them have no innate threat and relay solely of damage which i guess is good for scaling purposes, just as long as theres no mobs which absorb like the ones in kz where innate threat is everything.

[Norrath]

Awwwwwesome.

[Graul]

I know it's probably not fashionable, but do you think you could also test out Mortal Strike and Bloodthirst with Tactical Mastery to see if either is worth using when Shield Slam is on cooldown in place of of just Sundering?

Great work btw.

[Ion]

I'd be curious to see what our AoE threat abilities are doing, as well as our single target ones.

All the shouts (Demo, Battle, Commanding, even Piercing Howl) and Thunder Clap...am I forgetting anything?

[Horacio]

Source: Lore Satrina - Any testing on reflecting spells off of other people, as far as who gets the threat? Also if you'd be willing, I'd love to tinker around with your mod to try and figure out the handful of Paladin "bonus threat" values =)

Heh, yeah I relized that when I actually started thinking about it. I was thinking 5000 threat for bloodrage was insane but I get it now....move along, don't point and laugh at me :P

[ItZMuRdA]

Great data/information and very nice work as always. Thanks.

[volition]

any chance we could ninja that mod u made for threat?

[Bostung]

I do very much appreciate the work you're doing to find these values, but I'm finding this new 100 threat = 1 damage standard much harder to read. Regardless of how the game reports threat, I'm betting the old 1:1 standard will remain. It allows for easier comparison between threat and damage, and also allows you to round off the (basically insignificant) ones and tens place, because they become tenths and hundredths.

To the poster above me, I'm not sure what Satrina's using, but I found this macro on the official forums:

/run local o,m=COMBATLOG.AddMessage function COMBATLOG.AddMessage(s,...) local t=select(5,UnitDetailedThreatSituation("player","t arget")) m=(select(1,...))..(t and " ("..t.." Threat)" or "") o(s,m,select(2,...)) end

Just run it once per log-in and it adds the raw threat value on your current target to the end of your combat log entries. It doesn't update instantly, though, so be careful. Use the ability you want to test, stop attacking, and then get punched in the face a few times and read the threat value off of one of the enemy's attack lines.

Also, I did some testing a couple builds ago and found that, despite Ghostcrawler's assertion that it was now 75% of damage, Thunder Clap was still doing 175% of its damage as threat. Likely still valid. (http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t27758-warrior_wotlk_talent_preview_discussion/p82/#2040)

Edit: Yup, just tested again, TC is still 175%. And, I'm not sure if it's been said or not, but looks like the threat from block/parry/dodge, is due to the enrage granted by improved defensive stance. Not much threat, anyway, though.

[Satrina]

People gripe about the awful new representation - but when was the last time you talked about your shield slam threat as 459 + (damage x 1.495) instead of 307 + damage, with the implied multiplication for stance?

We will still talk about threat values in ther normalised forms as we always have. Whether you refer to the stance modifier as 207.35 or 2.0735 is irrelevant to pretty much all discussions of threat.

[salihe]

Good god, I didn't know smart people like you played wow. I thought we were all stoners with Cheetos-stained Metallica t-shirts.

Oh, well, I have a Black Light Burns shirt on now. And I dont' smoke weed.

But that's besides the point

In any case, I'm glad there are people like you to do work for people like me, for whom calculators were invented for.

[Khordam]

Source: Satrina Turning those numbers around for comparison to Devastate: 2618 x 0.18 = 471 x 207.35 = 97662 2618 x 0.36 = 942 x 207.35 = 195323 2618 x 0.54 = 1414 x 207.35 = 293193 2618 x 0.72 = 1885 x 207.35 = 390854 2618 x 0.90 = 2356 x 207.35 = 488517 At level 80 with 2618AP, I'm averaging 1000-1200 on Devastate with 5 sunders stacked: 2618 x 0.05 = 131 bonus threat (1100 + 131) = 1231 x 207.35 = 255248 Interesting. Something tells me I need to revisit Devastate tomorrow to see if I missed something.

If I got this right, what your numbers say is that 5 sunders generate more threat than 1 devastate. That's hardly surprising.
The only real comparison to be done is between 1 sunder (97662 threat) and 1 devastate (255248 threat). Devastate wins, big time, as damn well it should.

[talisfears]

Great work, thanks very much Satrina. I'd love to see values at 70 too as I'm not quite updating my sheet for WotLK yet. ::cracks whip::

One question - I'm wondering where the 207.35 modifier comes from, or if maybe it could be slightly different. Since they told us they were baking Salvation into defensive stance, I'd expect defensive stance to be:

1.45/.7=2.0714 x100=207.14
OR
1.3*1.15/.7=2.1357 x100=213.57

It's clearly closer to old defiance having been additive, but 207.35 is still a little off. Any idea where that little extra is coming from?

Update: Bah, reading for the win. An earlier poster pointed out that they probably rounded 1/.7 to 1.43 and then multiplied by 1.45. 1.43*1.45=2.0735 x100=207.35