[Satrina]

Cider: Sure, I just need to go find a spellcaster =)

[Satrina]

Popped on to test to re-check:

Battle Stance - Initial bloodrage pulse gives 5000 threat for 10 rage.
Defensive Stance - Initial bloodrage pulse gives 5000 threat for 10 rage.

Aggroing a hostile and just standing there till I get a block:
Battle stance - 1000
Berserker stance - 1000
Defensive stance - 1207

And! I just noticed something very interesting: I get 207 threat whenever I dodge, parry, or block an opponent's attack in defensive stance. That's hot. Verified that there is no threat gain for dodge/parry/block in battle and berserker stances

That makes the block numbers in defensive stance make a lot more sense. 207 for the block, leaves 1000 threat generated by two rage at 500 threat each.

So yeah, 500 threat per point of rage generated, not modified by stance multipliers. Time to update!

[phaze]

Source: Satrina Edit: Actually, no, it's not better than Sunder. We have to get out of the habit of thinking of threat in 1:1 ratios.

I prefer the 1:1 model; you're not porting around the x100 scalar which will be inflating every number, so you're reducing things to a base value. A minor concern, but just voicing it. =)

Sunder is 428 normalised, which generates 88724 threat in defensive stance. One rage making 500 threat is not threatening to that at all. That said, I have popped onto Beta to play more with rage gen specifically. I think the deal is we get 500 threat per point of rage, and that does not get modified by stance.

Conversely, you could say that you get 5 threat per rage, which then gets a x100 multiplier, ignoring stance. That would make it adjusted for easy comparing against other base values, such as Sunder's 428.

The only reason I bring this up, is to double check that other values aren't getting confused by this switch between 1:1 ratio and 1:100 ratio.

[Keshiji]

I'm a little confused... or maybe I'm just wrong... but if Devastate generates just 5% of AP as threat... isn't it better then to use Sunder Armor first and then Devastate? Like in the old nasty times? Probably I'm very wrong because I'm ignoring the damage from Devastate as well but for some reason those calculations feel like a little... lacking?

At least with actual gear anyway. (T5/T6 Stuff) wouldn't it be better if I just plain start with one or two Sunders and then switch to Devastates... or stick to it until when we have the 5 debuffs?

Sunders the target's armor, reducing it by 520 per Sunder Armor and causes a high amount of threat. Threat increased by attack power. Can be applied up to 5 times.

So probably it'll also generate more threat by itself as well, no?


Bai!

[Satrina]

Source: phaze I prefer the 1:1 model; you're not porting around the x100 scalar which will be inflating every number, so you're reducing things to a base value. A minor concern, but just voicing it. =)

You're then dividing everything out across the board, since the threat functions report threat the way I have been. I doubt that Omen will be dividing anything by 100 in its threat reports. Keep it simple. All we're doing is changing the paradigm from multiplying by 1.495 to multiplying by 207.3. People can deal.

Edit: Agreed, it's a trivial point. We'll use this to create our threat priorities and then forget about it for the most part.

[Satrina]

Source: Keshiji I'm a little confused... or maybe I'm just wrong... but if Devastate generates just 5% of AP as threat... isn't it better then to use Sunder Armor first and then Devastate?

Devastate deals its damage as threat as well.

If your Devastate landed for 600 damage, and you have 2400AP, the threat you generate is (600 + 2400 x 0.05) x 207.3 = 149256 threat. Compare to a Sunder which always generates 90797 threat. Devastate hits a lot harder than 600 as you go, as well. And can crit.

[Lanex]

Very nice job on posting these numbers I appreciate you spending the time to figure out the threat values for all of us. This will be very helpful to know!

[Armstrong]

Just one question still on my mind: does rage gain from damage taken and white damage dealt also generate 500 threat per rage? I have to assume it doesn't since it would have skewed your data quite a bit if it did, but I'm still curious since so far you've only mentioned rage gain from abilities and talents.

Thanks for the awesome work putting this together!

[Lore]

So given that sunder appears to be doing a flat 438 per application, we can conclude that either it's bugged, or the tooltip is a lie.

[Satrina]

Or that I haven't actually tested past 1 sunder yet

[Falkynn]

Thank you for taking the time to do this for us and explain the new way threat is calculated.

But... I am trying to grasp the new math here. Can you please put another example up for me.

Quote:
If your Devastate landed for 600 damage, and you have 2400AP, the threat you generate is (600 + 2400 x 0.05) x 207.3 = 149256 threat. Compare to a Sunder which always generates 90797 threat.

I can understand the above but 149256 threat becomes what in the end and what number is used to divide that? Also a bit confused as to the rage = 500 threat? Does that mean the higher our rage bar the higher the threat calculation when we land a blow to the mob?

Thank you in advance for the help.

[Schleppy]

I wonder at what amount of armor does Armored to the teeth generate more threat then cruelity for 2 less talent points?

[Horacio]

Thank you very much for the information, Satrina. Your work is appreciated!

[Satrina]

Source: Falkynn I can understand the above but 149256 threat becomes what in the end and what number is used to divide that?

There's no division - 149256 is the end amount of threat for defensive stance. That's the number the game will report back to you if you ask it. Let me break it down a bit better:

Normalised threat is the amount of threat you generate before accounting for your stance. We'll stick with the 600 point Devastate at 2400AP.

You'll get (2400 x 0.05) 120 bonus threat on the Devastate from your attack power, for a total of 720 normalised threat.

If you are in defensive stance when you land this Devastate, you get a multiplied of 207.3, so the attack will generate 149256 threat.

If you are in battle or berserker stance when you land this Devastate, you get a multiplied of 80, so the attack will generate 57600 threat.

[Horacio]

Battle Stance - Initial bloodrage pulse gives 5000 threat for 10 rage. Defensive Stance - Initial bloodrage pulse gives 5000 threat for 10 rage.

This is incredible.

[bludwork]

so if I choose to use sunder armor instead of devastate will that generate more threat (over pure devastate alone)?

[Keshiji]

Source: Satrina Devastate deals its damage as threat as well. If your Devastate landed for 600 damage, and you have 2400AP, the threat you generate is (600 + 2400 x 0.05) x 207.3 = 149256 threat. Compare to a Sunder which always generates 90797 threat. Devastate hits a lot harder than 600 as you go, as well. And can crit.

The more AP you get Devastate >>> Sunder Armor, right?

That is at least what I guessing.. but my problem is for the 3.0 patch, when it goes Live. I bet most warriors will be at a max of 1600-1700 Buffed AP (remember buffs won't stack anymore) so... at that level of AP I'm not so sure if it'll be better to just Devastate all the time or begin with one or two Sunders, maybe even three and then finish the last ones with Devastate... to build up aggro as fast as possible.


That's my issue... not completely sure about it! (And also, don't forget that they are nerfing devastate's damage... so... I don't know! D: )

[Satrina]

Alrighty, spell reflect.

Defensive Stance
Onslaught Raven Priest's Raven Flock hits Onslaught Raven Priest for 836.
For this, I gained 173345 threat in defensive stance
836 x 207.35 is 173345*

Battle Stance
Onslaught Raven Priest's Raven Flock hits Onslaught Raven Priest for 793 damage.
For this, I gained 63440 threat in battle stance
793 * 80 = 63440

So, we get the damage of the reflected spell modified by stance for spell reflect.


* This answers one question - threat values are multiplied out by the full 207.35, then rounded prior to transport back to your client

[Noc]

Excellent work, any plans to check out TC?

[Satrina]

I'll test all of it. I'll be updating this thread as I get new stuff done.