[OnourisofRavencrest]

Mocking blow seems to generate an ass ton of threat, could you quantify "ass ton" for me? My thinking being that, depending on the amount, it might well be worth keeping on cd if you are going for max threat (even though those days are gone and I have this new fangled dps meter to worry about).

[pyius]

Thanks, Sat. I went to test it out today, and yes it looks like SS is the same at 80 with +770.

As far as mocking blow, here are my tests.

Test #1
Damage: 1382
Threat gain: 4146
threat = 4146 - 1382 = 2764

Test #2
Damage: 1544
Threat gain: 4632
threat = 4632 - 1544 = 3088

Test concludes that threat gain from mocking blow is (Damage * 3)

[OnourisofRavencrest]

Source: pyius As far as mocking blow, here are my tests. Test #1 Damage: 1382 Threat gain: 4146 threat = 4146 - 1382 = 2764 Test #2 Damage: 1544 Threat gain: 4632 threat = 4632 - 1544 = 3088 Test concludes that threat gain from mocking blow is (Damage * 3)

Is this on beta at lvl 80?

I don't have a beta key nor any specialized mod for testing threat beyond omen, but on live at 70 my mocking blow hits for ~300 and my threat on oment jumps ~2000.

[Kazeyonoma]

Relying on Omen to do threat testing is flawed, as far as I know it's possible that Omen is making assumptions itself to what threat values are being given.

[OnourisofRavencrest]

Source: Kazeyonoma Relying on Omen to do threat testing is flawed, as far as I know it's possible that Omen is making assumptions itself to what threat values are being given.

As I said, it's the best I have, hence the reasoning behind asking the question. As far as I know, omen relies on a threat library comprised of values derived from testing similar to what Satrina is doing; I would find it very odd that the mod were designed to make assumptions, or in effect
guess, what the threat values should be. But who knows, could be wrong.


Another question I wanted to ask in my earlier post, though this is a little off topic, is for the guy who tested mocking blow: how does the threat from mocking blow compare to Dev? (Nevermind, saw on front page Satrina was getting 7k threat for 5th sunder devs.)

[pyius]

Yes, my mocking blow test was at 80 on the current build on beta (i can't remember the exact build number).

An easy way to get threat value is using wow api in a script. Just make a macro:
/cancelaura enrage
/script a,b,c,d,e = UnitDetailedThreatSituation("player","target"); DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage("threat value: " .. e);

I used cancelaura to remove enrage to make things unbiased.

[Arold]

Thanks to all involved for all the hard work on this project! When I get a minute, I'm going to have to make myself a sheet that combines the normalized numbers with the stance multipliers.

[Xinhuan]

Source: OnourisofRavencrest As I said, it's the best I have, hence the reasoning behind asking the question. As far as I know, omen relies on a threat library comprised of values derived from testing similar to what Satrina is doing; I would find it very odd that the mod were designed to make assumptions, or in effect guess, what the threat values should be. But who knows, could be wrong.

Hello, I am the current author of Omen3, I registered here to post that...

• Omen3 no longer attempts to do any guessing unlike Omen2 (which used a threat library of threat values for every ability, and its often wrong). The goal is to provide accurate threat values, not estimates
• Omen3 simply displays the threat values as given to us by Blizzard, no more, no less. There is no guessing, no fudging, no tricks. For the most part, most of Omen3 is really just code to customize the display.
• Omen3 updates the threat display as fast as Blizzard tells us there are threat value updates.

In fact, I have taken the contents of the original first post of this thread, and placed it in the "Warrior FAQ" in the "Help File" section of Omen's configuration (the stuff you see in /omen config). If anyone noticed it that is.

[yobotra]

Im obviously bit slow but where heroic strike fits in big picture. Is it still the number 1 for use if you have 50+ rage or use shield slam and revenge first and only replace devastate ? im looking for maximum threath my guildies are still saying im not doing enough threat since i have alot worse equipment than they do

[Roana]

Interestingly enough, Mind Control seems to give a priest threat precisely equal to the maximum health of a mob. I.e., if you MC a mob with 9173 health, you will have exactly 9173 threat when the MC ends.

While that is not quite the same as infinite threat, in practice it all but ensures that only Taunt can pull something off a MCing priest (especially if we're talking about raid mobs such as, say, Death Knight Understudies).

[pyius]

Source: yobotra Im obviously bit slow but where heroic strike fits in big picture. Is it still the number 1 for use if you have 50+ rage or use shield slam and revenge first and only replace devastate ? im looking for maximum threath my guildies are still saying im not doing enough threat since i have alot worse equipment than they do

What type of situation is it? Are you having issues on trash? On AoE? On Bosses?

Also, if it's only one person that's catching up, Hand of Salv works wonders. Try to save it as long as you can. And if it's AoE, use vigi one your best AoE dps to gain 10% of their threat on the mobs.

[Bostung]

Source: yobotra Im obviously bit slow but where heroic strike fits in big picture. Is it still the number 1 for use if you have 50+ rage or use shield slam and revenge first and only replace devastate ? im looking for maximum threath my guildies are still saying im not doing enough threat since i have alot worse equipment than they do

Well, the main thing to keep in mind about Heroic Strike is that it's actually fairly bad threat-per-rage. The only benefit of Heroic Strike is that, as an "on next swing" ability, it does not trigger the global cooldown and can be used in addition to your normal threat rotation.

Basically, Heroic Strike should never replace any of your other moves. It should be used only when you're generating more rage than you can spend on Shield Slam, Revenge and Devastate. And when you do start using that excess rage on Heroic Strikes, don't stop using your other moves. You should still be using every global cooldown on Shield Slam, Revenge or Devastate.

[Armstrong]

Source: Roana Interestingly enough, Mind Control seems to give a priest threat precisely equal to the maximum health of a mob. I.e., if you MC a mob with 9173 health, you will have exactly 9173 threat when the MC ends. While that is not quite the same as infinite threat, in practice it all but ensures that only Taunt can pull something off a MCing priest (especially if we're talking about raid mobs such as, say, Death Knight Understudies).

Is that in "Blizzard threat" or old school 1dmg=1threat? Is it affected by Shadow Affinity? Either way, D-stance / RF / Bear form / F-presence all multiply damage and innate threat values by 2.0735 or 207.35 depending on which system you use, so at the very most a tank would have to generate half the mob's max health (and +10% of that) in threat to gain aggro. Obviously this won't work on the Razuvious fight, but on lower-health mobs it should still be possible without Taunt, no?

[Turpin]

Since they put Shield Slam as a base talent i did a quick comparison between the threat of the base SS vs the threat of MS in defensive stance for an arms speced war (with TM, Imp MS and MS glyph) at lvl 80 using Satrina's numbers.

SS = damage +770
MS = (weapon damage +380)* 1.63 (+20% combining Imp MS and MS Glyph)

MS = (weapon*1.2)1.63 +(380*1.2)1.63 = weapon*1.96 + 743
SS = 1020+770 = 1790

Setting them equal i Conclude that the weapon damage portion of MS must be more than 534 damage for it to equal Shield slam threat. I saw an ilvl 200 one hand mace that was 2.5 speed and WD of 357, leaving 177 of WD to be accounted for by AP which only needs about 1k AP to generate. So it seems we should prioritize MS (5sec CD, 25rage) over SS (6sec CD, 20 rage) at lvl 80 when arms speced tanking with a slow weapon. Of course there are other factors such as more HSs with a faster weapon and whether to put both MS and SS into the same rotation with revenge, etc.

[Tyriall]

Thank you, Satrina! You are a godsend for the warrior community.

[Roana]

Source: Armstrong Is that in "Blizzard threat" or old school 1dmg=1threat? Is it affected by Shadow Affinity?

My understanding is that "Blizzard threat" is simply the artifact of a fixed point representation of real numbers, so I am sticking with 1 damage = 1 threat (as do all threat meters that I know of).

Either way, D-stance / RF / Bear form / F-presence all multiply damage and innate threat values by 2.0735 or 207.35 depending on which system you use, so at the very most a tank would have to generate half the mob's max health (and +10% of that) in threat to gain aggro. Obviously this won't work on the Razuvious fight, but on lower-health mobs it should still be possible without Taunt, no?

Only on non-elites, really, or with some massive luck from crits. The lowest health level 70 elites have over 20k max health. Level 80 elites seem to have more like 65k health and up. And even if it's possible, Taunt or Mocking Blow (with the Mocking Blow glyph) are simply going to be the better choice.

[yobotra]

Thanks armstrong and turpin that clarifies what i was pondering

[jere]

Source: Roana My understanding is that "Blizzard threat" is simply the artifact of a fixed point representation of real numbers, so I am sticking with 1 damage = 1 threat (as do all threat meters that I know of).

This is correct. 1 Damage = 1.00 Blizzard threat, which shows up in a fixed point notation of 100

[Grufvendar]

In the first post I think the numbers for Tactical Mastery are a bit misleading in the 121/142/163 form and should be reverted back to the 1.21/1.42/1.63 format. I understand the new scale and all that. As I understand it, the TM modifier is applied in addition to the stance modifier. So for calculating how much thread a Mortal Strike is going to do, you have:

Threat = (damage x tm mod x stance mod)

That means with the new modifier format the x100 scale change is included twice in the calculation.

Thanks for all of the hard work that went into this. I'm just trying to make a small contribution for clarity and to reduce confusion for us not Prot tanks

[Khue]

Hey Satrina,
Thanks for your hard work on all this.

I was wondering if there have been any changes or updates to threat outlined in the section of your original guide titled "AOE Threat: Healing, Buffing, Power Gain."