[jere]

Seal of Vengeance is your best bet currently. Though now with the SoR glyph, we probably need to go back and recalculate (while considering reckoning to be fair). The gist of it is that there is some crossover point based on weapon speed (Since SoR's HotR damage is based on that value unlike the normal SoR's hits). Before that point SoV wins out, and SoR wins after that point. These new changes move the point. There is also your hit/expertise values to consider as they affect SoR and not so much SoV.

TLDR:
SoV is ideal for the average paladin. We need to run the math some more for special cases.

[Chibaku]

Yo. My question is on Judgements. Which Judgement generates the most threat. AS I understood it (how some arb noob explained it to me). Is that if you judge Light or Wisdom you gain threat based on the amount healed regened by all raid members off your Judgement. Reading here, has me come to believe that this is only true for JoW? I'm a little confused : /

[jere]

That was fixed already. They removed the threat we gen on JoL from other players (I forget which patch though). I made no mention of JoL in this thread, because at the time of writing it, it was a healing effect, and I provided a section on healing effect coefficients.

The short answer is it doesn't matter really. Ideally a ret paladin will supply JoL since it will heal for more. It all depends on your raid composition. Don't pick judgements based on threat. Pick them based on utility and raid composition.

Also, I am pretty sure you don't gain threat from other people's mana regens off of JoW. I would need to go test that though.

[SkyHigh]

Hello,
As a tankadin, got some questions ;
Initially, I filled my sockets with +24 stamina wherever available ( def capped already )so that I could reach 30k+ hp but after that I realized my char was like an empty box making sound, I wasnt able to tank any boss comfortably that can go frenzy or get enraged coz I was thinking with high hp and stuff, I would do my job without any trouble. Then it I realized I can sacrifice from Hp and put some more def rating on sockets like +8 def +12 stamina and spammed those gems on sockets wherever available, I still wasnt happy so a couple of days ago I decided to change all of them to +16 def rating, now with Holy Shield skill i have like 65+ % block but now my hp is like 26k, I havent received any warnings from raid masters due to having low hp but this time caster bosses have more chance to get me down coz they dont care about getting blocked :P atm i got 567 def rating with 26k hp and I dont know if its too low to tank so I thought maybe one of you can have an idea. btw I dont have problems about aoe tanking or boss tanking , i got the increased sp of consecration on libram and Im not sure how low the spell power coming from * Touched By the Light* skill is gonna be coz of low stamina.
Thx

[jere]

Honestly, I have no idea what you are saying and I can't find a question in there. Maybe clarify a bit more and use less run-ons? It's hard to follow your train of thought. I am sure we would all be glad to help you if we can.

[Pyrea]

Source: jere Honestly, I have no idea what you are saying and I can't find a question in there. Maybe clarify a bit more and use less run-ons? It's hard to follow your train of thought. I am sure we would all be glad to help you if we can.

I think these are the main points:

1. he stacked stam everywhere and ended up with amssive health and hardly any avoidance.

2. he then stuck enduring forest emerald in every slot and still wasnt happy about bosses hitting him so often

3. now he has gone to the other extreme and is gemming for pure defense, adn wants to know if we reckon 567 defense skill and 26k hp is too little for tanking big guys.

Assuming the end question is correct, here goes:
When I was gearing up I gemmed the stalwart topaz gems, (defense/dodge) or enduring emeralds (defense stam) and was also hovering around 26k life unbuffed (this is item level 200 stuff). At this point I had about 8% chance for the mob to hit me without being blocked. What I would do in your position would be to gem for defense/stamina, of course this is without seeing your gear because I cannot find your armory link.

Basically, if it works for you, you are doing good, you have obviously gone for the avoidance > stamina choice. however when it come to progression fights (ulduar bosses hit hard) you will have problems. If you could provide an armory link we could see what is likely to be hitting you now an in the future.

[jere]

You should work as a translator!!

[Pyrea]

Source: jere You should work as a translator!!

Well I am studying English, so it is an option...

[SkyHigh]

Tried 24 stamina gems on as u suggested, yesterday Kel'thuzad was hitting me like
a dummy, hp FTL, def rating FTW. gonna have to spam +16 def rating gems again, or maybe +8 def +12 stamina

[jere]

Perhaps this is a better discussion for the gear forums. This thread is about paladin threat values, but I think you are asking about survivability concerns more.

[Pyrea]

Kel'thuzad melees for about 5k on heroic (at least i'm pretty sure he did on sunday), if you were getting owned by him try shouting at your melee who are supposed to be interrupting the 24k frost bolts. The only thing that hits hard are the frostbolts that arent supposed to be hitting you in the first place.

Perhaps this is a better discussion for the gear forums. This thread is about paladin threat values, but I think you are asking about survivability concerns more.

that's why I replied to his question by PM

Ok so you'll be tanking ulduar when it goes live. The mobs hit hard. 25 man bosses are reported to hit for 22-26k on a tank (think patchwerk hateful level on 25 man, except you wont have somebody taking half of the hits. You might want to consider getting some 24 stamina gems. you are sitting at 115% avoidance+blocking with holy shield up, you can safely lose some avoidance and keep block capped (102.4%) to make sure bosses won't 1 or 2 hit you. copy paste this to the thread if you want. - Pyrea

is what I suggested.

[jere]

Source: Pyrea that's why I replied to his question by PM

That's fine. The comment was more directed towards the one asking the questions. It would better to keep this topic on topic if possible.

[Tankodin]

my question is threat related if devine protection was self casted on the tank does it /would it drop any threat at all or would it be like a shield wall inbuble form reducing dmg with no threat repercusion ? just trying to secure a definate reason for having the set bonus and its usability in uldar .

[Pyrea]

Divine Protection (not Divine Shield) reduces all incoming damage by 50% for its duration. It does NOT cause an aggro drop.

[jere]

Divine Protection (50% damage reduction) has no affect on threat/aggro whatsoever. The boss will continue to attack you because he can do some amount of damage to you.

Divine Shield (100% damage reduction) will cause you to lose aggro while it is active because the boss cannot do any damage to you. However, it has no effect on your threat, so once it dissipates, you will go back to having aggro unless someone else has passed you in threat or taunted off of you during that time frame.

Hand of Protection works very similar to Divine Shield (except it is only 100% reduction in physical damage).

So the only safe one to use is Divine Protection***


***NOTE: You can, however, force an enemy to attack you while having Divine Shield and Hand of Protection by taunting them. Once the taunt wears off, they will drop aggro though until DS or HoP fades.

[Tankodin]

Thank u now im wondering why i havent used it so far allthoe i havent had any isues as far as taking dmg is conserned :P

[Xanthen]

Hey I have a qeustion about threat. Currently it seems to be my problem(at least I think so.) 25 man trash I pull around 3k-4.3k TPS sometimes dipping a little below 3k. On boss fights its around 4k-6k TPS. I have my 9696 rotation down. I am wondering how important hit rating is to adding threat as I have 5 +16 hit gems. Im currently at around 6.5% melee hit rating. If it is trivial I would like to add maybe some 8defens 12 stam gems. Also I am wondering how effective reckoning is compared to "Seals of the pure" for extra Vengeance damage, possibly adding threat? This is the link to my armory The World of Warcraft Armory

[jere]

Reckoning isn't very good for threat if you are using vengeance. If you are looking for an optimal threat spec, you should probably go 0/53/18 or something close to that. 3 points in crusade gets you more threat than 5 points in seals of the pure, and reckoning isn't all that great either.

Check out this thread for a lot of the info you are interested, including how hit compares to other threat stats:
Maintankadin • View topic - Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

[Xanthen]

Hey man thanks for that link, all of that info was very helpful.

[Aeldar]

whats the best enchant to have on a prot pally's weapon?