3.0 to wotlk gap - defense required for uncritable

protonly · #1 09-12-2008, 07:53 AM

I saw the downloader last night grabbing a 3.0 patch which I presume is going to be coming in the next week or two and is the patch with the updated talents for wrath.

Given the changes to war/pally anticipation, does anyone know the defense level required to remain uncritable? Is it still 490?

A guildy was saying they're removing weapon skill which would lower the defense required for uncritable, I think. He estimated around 400ish but that was just shooting in the wind.

**Satrina** · #2 09-12-2008, 07:59 AM

Nothing changes - still calculated the same way it is now.

- You'll have a 5% chance to be crit by an equal level mob +0.2% per level above yours, so still 5.6% for level 83.

- Your base defense at 80 will be (5*80) 400 defense

- Now you need to get rid of that 5.6%. As always, 25 defense reduces chance to be crit by 1%, so that's (5.6 * 25) 140 defense.

You need 540 defense to be uncrittable. (Just as we need 350 + 140 = 490 today)

What changes is how many points of defense rating make one point of defense skill at level 80, which seems to be 4.92 (that holds up on the beta server so far), so you're looking for 689 defense rating.

protonly · #3 09-12-2008, 08:19 AM

Actually, I think I asked the wrong question.

If they are removing weapon skill then would not the formula have to change? Or are they only removing it from our toons and leaving it on mobs. I would have to assume that even the pre-kara gear items would have to be reitemized to account for the removal of defense through talents...20 defense is HUGE to make up for a required skill.

**Satrina** · #4 09-12-2008, 08:26 AM

All my characters on beta have weapon skills =) Rumours feed crazy talk.

protonly · #5 09-12-2008, 08:32 AM

Especially when you've been drinking

Thanks man!

Xeider · #6 09-12-2008, 10:00 AM

Still wondering how 3.0 is going to truly affect tanking...

Warrior are loosing the 5 point talent that gets us 20 def (anticipation)

does that mean if you currently only have 490ish in def... your going to need to pick up another 20 def (though will have an extra 5% in dodge if you take that tallent). This may mean in current gear... you will need to be at 510 def to be uncritable...

unless I am missing something here...

wonder how long before the inscriptions will be availble for not a rediculous price

Orenus · #7 09-12-2008, 10:14 AM

Xeider, if you have 510 def right now, you'll probably remain uncrittable. I say probably because epic tank gear is being reitemized in 3.0 to let us take advantage of the new usefulness of strength, and most pieces are losing a little bit of def rating. As of 3.0 you will still only require 490 def to be uncrittable.

Krashtork · #8 09-12-2008, 10:50 AM

So is 3.0 coming out before WoTLK or something?

<---- confused

**Satrina** · #9 09-12-2008, 10:56 AM

Yes, just as we got WoW 2.0 before the TBC launch.

Krashtork · #10 09-12-2008, 11:02 AM

Ok I figured as much. Do we know when we're supposed to get it? More specifically will we get to reap the benefits in our current raids long enough before WoTLK launch that it matters?

**TomHuxley** · #11 09-12-2008, 12:01 PM

The background downloader already has close to 1gb of data to download for the 3.0.1 patch. I don't know if it's up on the PTRs yet, so I'd expect a few more weeks still until it goes live, but it's coming, and probably a month or two before Wrath ships if I had to guess.

protonly · #12 09-12-2008, 12:16 PM

Source: Orenus
Xeider, if you have 510 def right now, you'll probably remain uncrittable. I say probably because epic tank gear is being reitemized in 3.0 to let us take advantage of the new usefulness of strength, and most pieces are losing a little bit of def rating. As of 3.0 you will still only require 490 def to be uncrittable.

It makes sense they'd have to bump down the def due to itemization and such. However they should do something to compensate for the sudden drop since a lot of people will probably have to gem/trinket/gear for the additional defense instead of stam or what have you. But with the removal of CBs maybe that extra stam or what have you isn't needed as much as it was.

Personally I'm at 506ish defense so with the change I'll be critable unless I swap out trinkets and lose 51 stam. That's with current gear. I can only hope they won't really decrease current amounts of defense of gear b/c it'll mean the difference between raiding and not raiding since no one brings in a critable tank.

Orenus · #13 09-12-2008, 12:35 PM

I suspect Blizz will consider the enormous long-run improvements we've received to be adequate compensation for any short-run defense skill shortfalls. Our gearing priorities have been completely reshuffled, and there's only so much they can do w/ existing gear budgets.

If you really don't want to sacrifice your trinkets, look for other changes you can make instead. If you have the +dodge cloak enchant, get the +def instead. That alone might push you back into uncrittable status, depending on your other gear. The chest defense enchant is an option too. Sure, you'll lose 150 hp, but that's better than giving up 51 stam. You don't have your armory data in your profile, so I can't tell how much def rating you'll lose to reitemization.

protonly · #14 09-14-2008, 05:57 PM

I'll buy the fact that the changes are improvements FOR the long run, when wrath hits. But for the immediate now, this isn't going to be fun. Based on existing data from various sites in kara/za/badges gear I will fall below the 490 level. I'm curious for lesser geared tanks how they will fare -- believe it or not some guilds are *still* only in kara and now they won't even be able to do that without bringing in overgeared ringers.

Some of the changes look awesome but if the bottom line is it looks like a lot of tanks aren't going to be able to raid or will have to sacrifice a LOT of stam in which case progressing further will be a real bitch...

**jere** · #15 09-14-2008, 06:18 PM

Source: Orenus
Xeider, if you have 510 def right now, you'll probably remain uncrittable. I say probably because epic tank gear is being reitemized in 3.0 to let us take advantage of the new usefulness of strength, and most pieces are losing a little bit of def rating. As of 3.0 you will still only require 490 def to be uncrittable.

The only caveat to this is that they are lowering the defense on some existing items as well to get some of the STR points. I am at 520 defense live. Going to the BETA dropped me to 486 defense for example.

Blackheathen · #16 09-14-2008, 08:09 PM

SSO Head Glyph instead of PoM or KoT one will help. PVP Shield etc. Should still be ok for us noobs out there still stuck in Kara lol.

protonly · #17 09-15-2008, 01:42 PM

Yeah but it'll hurt our progression a tad. I think I ended up losing 51 stam in my trinket spot to sub-in a def trinket and I juuuust eeked out a 491 or something. That's a lot of stam -- when I did it a pal on vent immediately said "what the heck did you do to lose all that health?!?"

Zelgius · #18 09-16-2008, 01:58 PM

So what you're saying is that Blizzard, in their effort to improve class mechanics, make every class more fun, and keep them all balanced at level 80, has created a 1 month (Mid October - Mid November) gap in which tanks just now getting into Karazhan may have a tough time? Oh no?

Illidan no longer casting sheer and tanks gaining 25% avoidance in sunwell with the removal of sunwell radiance are good signs that should allay your fears that blizzard has forsaken the level 70 content.

protonly · #19 09-16-2008, 02:32 PM

We'll just have to see how it shakes out. I think it hurts tanks at the middle of progression the most -- which is where the majority of tanks are. Based on the tanks I've seen on my server in SWP or with BT on farm, I doubt they would notice anything negative since they speced out of anticipation a long time ago or they have absurdly high defense that they can soak the def change. A lot of tanks in the T5 content that were still hoping for progression kills, they'll suddenly be crit immune and have to lower their EH by geming/enchanting out of stam to be crit immune again.

The change is for the best no doubt about that. But maybe they should have kept this until the xpac since it really really only affected the top 2% of the wow world and let us in horrible progression guilds plod along. For guilds that were still progressing in BT, this change might stall them somewhat but we'll have to see.

Ilya M · #20 09-16-2008, 04:24 PM

Source: Zelgius
So what you're saying is that Blizzard, in their effort to improve class mechanics, make every class more fun, and keep them all balanced at level 80, has created a 1 month (Mid October - Mid November) gap in which tanks just now getting into Karazhan may have a tough time? Oh no?

Illidan no longer casting sheer and tanks gaining 25% avoidance in sunwell with the removal of sunwell radiance are good signs that should allay your fears that blizzard has forsaken the level 70 content.

If you read the other thread that Xav posted about what the defense picture is like at lvl 80, you would have a different opinion of the current situation