[Hypatia]

It's also worth noting that the defense thresholds for crit-immunity and daze-immunity are the same. Want to be sure you're safe from getting dazed and massively slowed down while kiting something around? Yeah.

[Orenus]

Source: Satrina In any case, the addition of diminishing returns on dodge and parry in 3.0

What's this now?

[Satrina]

http://www.tankspot.com/forums/theor...g-returns.html

(Three threads under this one! Wait! The thread above this one! Bah, you know what I mean.)

[Radhja]

Source: Kazeyonoma bah, i just wear part pvp gear, crit problem solved =]

This = fail


I ran into a very similar problem last night in Magtheridon. Easy T4 fight, actually had competent cube-clickers in a PUG. Everything's going smoothly, damage intake is fairly steady, healers have more than enough to keep me up, and DPS is fantastic.

Then I died.

Melee 5286 (x blocked)
Melee 5999 (x blocked)
Flash of Light for 1200
Cleave for 9600-ish
Radhja has died.

...all in less than 2 seconds, and hots WERE rolling, but timing was apparently appalling bad.

Now, imagine if Crits were involved in that scenario.

No thanks.

[Kazeyonoma]

well no, see, my pvp gear has huge amounts of armor, str for new threat/sbv conversion, stamina and resil to help me stay uncrittable, I'll admit my avoidance is a bit low to begin with but I can make up for that as gear comes or merely by equipping dodge centric tanking gear.

[finwë]

Source: Satrina We can trade arguments about "this boss doesn't do that/this boss does that" or "this shouldn't happen or you suck/but it can happen and here's how" all day, but that's not the point at all. Do you really want to be the one risking your raid on a chance? I mean yeah, a crit getting through probably isn't the end of the world, although you speak of lame RNG giving multiple crushes... why not a crush and a crit from said lame RNG? But at that one point where the dust clears and the raidleader asks what happened, and the healers go "bob got crit and we couldn't recover"... awkward.

I agree on this matter with Satrina, as a tank in raids you never want the chance you get some unlucky crits because of some lame RNG. Maybe if your overgeared for the fight it's not a big issue, but still why even risk it.

With crushing blows out of the window tanks should have a more steady incoming damage. Having crits a chance to hit you would be a strange choice.

Even more with diminishing returns on the avoidance, you want to avoid crits. I am guessing it's more important if you maximize your effective health by focusing on health and your migitation stats. Balance you avoidance stats around that and avoiding any form of spike damage.

[kolben]

I posted this somewhere else too in general, but this morning I noticed that the badge chest and legs took a big defense hit. Both are down to ~30-34.

I normally run with about 528-535 defense on live, on PTR same gear (shield choice makes the difference) 485.

They put strength on nearly everything including [item]Tankatronic Goggles[/item], which is pretty huge in the AP area, but seem to have borrowed from defense and hit rating to justify it.

I also have roughly ~700 less HP than on live. Again in part due to the 4% less stamina from the change to Vitality, and where they may have borrowed stam to itemize in strength; didn't have time to carefully compare.

The AP is significant though. Going 618 unbuffed on live, to about 1220 unbuffed on PTR.

[Pagezero]

Source: kolben I also have roughly ~700 less HP than on live. Again in part due to the 4% less stamina from the change to Vitality, and where they may have borrowed stam to itemize in strength; didn't have time to carefully compare.

Are you a Tauren, the Endurance racial is the only decrease to health I noticed. The stam part of Vitality was actually increased from 5% to 6%, it was the strength part that was decreased from 10% to 6%.

[Fryswithat]

Still dont understand why swaping in and out some PvP gear wouldnt work / or help

[Navlelo]

20 defense skill = 47-48 defense rating..
15defense on chest
12defense on cloak
12 defense on bracers
1x 10 defense gems. (might actually just hit it with 8defense gem aswell)
sorted...

when I copied my char to the ptr I didn't have a defense issue, but that's because I haf uber gearz kk (worship me plx).. point is tho, I lost about 30defense skill, but I gained a fair bit effective health, so regemming and enchanting defense over hp shouldn't hurt you too much in the end..

[Edgwin]

Sorry if this has been stated before but, only got through the first two pages in this thread.

As a Night Elf warrior with the racial passive 2.00% to be missed should your def target for uncrittable (assuming 25 def = 1% miss) be again 490 at lvl 80 vs boss lvl mobs?

[kevinb70]

using the same gear on PTR and current game, having to swap some out (like t6 gloves since the 27 SBR on t6 gloves has been converted to 18 str)

so my new highest crush immune set on pre-patch is (unbuffed)
579 def (9.16% miss)
23.78% dodge
19.16% parry
53.15% sbr

or 110.255% from char sheet

on ptr it is
551 def (8.04%)
25.01% dodge
17.13% parry
49.11% block

my uncrush macro is saying 105.1%... hmm to what lvl mob will I still be crush immune as my lvl goes up and my stats drop in value (71 vs 74, 73 vs 76?)

at first I didnt think I'd be able to solo for my tiger mount in ZG anymore, but swapping out gear (like t4 or t5 glove in place of t6) I was about to bring it above 102.4%

I am just glad i have so much gear to swap out.

[Bostung]

Source: Edgwin As a Night Elf warrior with the racial passive 2.00% to be missed should your def target for uncrittable (assuming 25 def = 1% miss) be again 490 at lvl 80 vs boss lvl mobs?

No, that racial doesn't affect crit chance, just miss chance. Your defense requirement will be the same as anybody else's, I'm afraid. That'd be 540 at 80, I believe.

[rustyboy]

This is the only thing worth while in this thread You need 540 defense to be uncrittable at level 80. Don't expect to be wearing your kara tank gear at level 80 and be uncrit.

I've OT'd in DPS gear in kara and I've tanked in dps gear for normal instances but only when I knew I had good healers. If your protection and below 490 def in gruuls -> mags -> tk -> ssc -> bt -> sunwell you should be gkicked, there really is no need for it.

[Meat]

Well im at the moment with 508 def, losing the talent will be 488 and i already looked how my gear will be in wowhead and i will lose more 30-40 defense rating with leaves me far from the uncrit line.... but im not worried, because i found the solution... Gloves and Shoulders from S2 (yes pvp crap, its disgusting but works) will give me 79 res that will be exatly -2% chance to be crit. i sugest you guys to do some AV before 3.0 comes

[Albinobeard]

I'd hate to bring this up again because it really is a terrible argument but I gotta throw my two cents in. Someone brought up the idea of Holy Shield allowing Pallies to be crit immune with their Holy Shield. Would it not be the same case for warriors and shield block? Since we get 100% block chance for ten seconds every 40 seconds, unless of course Pallies can keep their Holy SHield up 100% of the time like we use to do with our Shield BLock pre-WotLK.

[Kazeyonoma]

yes this is true, unless crit is above block on the hit table. However, holy shield can be kept up almost indefinitely due to it's shorter cooldown. Warriors have a 1min (40sec talented) that lasts 10 seconds. That means 2/3rd of the time we are crittable if we go by this means.

[kolben]

Source: Pagezero Are you a Tauren, the Endurance racial is the only decrease to health I noticed. The stam part of Vitality was actually increased from 5% to 6%, it was the strength part that was decreased from 10% to 6%.

That's what it was, I had forgotten/didn't notice the change to the racial when checking the PTR and assumed it was lost in the shuffle on stat changes to my gear.

In doing some messing around, trading out [item]Brooch of Deftness[/item] for [item]Frayed Tether of the Drowned[/item], and [item]Ring of the Stalwart Protector[/item] for [item]Ring of Sundered Souls[/item] I easily solved the defense problem.

Have quite a few items that are great by TBC standards that will be collecting dust in 3.0 lol

[Mordigen]

I imagine the mass majority of the tanks that are not farming all the upper end 25 mans will be replacing gear fairly fast and by the time we get to the point were we will be raiding 10 mans and such again it will be with all the blues or epics from the level 80ish gear and not any of the gear we are using now. Guessing from past experience with expansion that is. Now all of this info is still very important to know if you are looking at the gear and trying to plan out what you want to acquire and where you have to run to get it from, you want to make sure you are going to be able to meet the uncrit level and get the correct enchants. Lots of future planning and things may change a little before then too.

[Petninja]

I'd like to throw in my thoughts on the importance of "uncrittable". It's been a while for me, but I remember when I first started tanking stuff everyone chanted the "12k armor, 12k hp, 490def" mantra for kara.
I remember running kara for the first time tanking in solid blues from instances (and a green belt). We had a fury OT, 5 dpsers that had just dinged the week before, and one of the 3 healers hadn't actually hit 70 yet. We full cleared w/ exception of Nightbane, who couldn't be summoned. That's kinda what Kara was designed for. It's not "ZOMG need epics for kara!". If you got crit by prince in phase 2 you probably died.
Badge gear as it stands is borderline T6, at least something you could expect to drop on Kael. If you're in badge gear running any T4 content you're probably overgeared for the place.
Try healing for a tank who gets crit by Gruul in growth 6-7. I know I'll gladly drop 1000hp from my tank so I don't take that extra 6000 damage and get everyone glaring at me for being crit. The reason we use tanks is because we are trying to take LESS damage. After T4 I'm guessing 490 won't be too hard to come up with but I guess I'll see later today. Thumbs up for Kazeyonoma.