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Single & Multi Target Threat
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  #1  
Old 05-04-2008, 05:03 AM
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Single & Multi Target Threat

High Threat output is critical to becoming an excellent tank. While tanks who do not understand their rotation or have not taken the work to best optimize it can get through instances, this does not mean they are getting through instances as quickly or efficiently as they should be. By learning how to optimize your Threat you will become significantly more valuable in parties and raids.

If you'd like the specific math behind this advice, please check out Threat Mechanics & Math.


Single Target
The best Threat rotation for a Protection Warrior is:
Shield Slam, Revenge, Devastate, Devastate

Opening

In most situations, the most effective opening rotation does not include Revenge. This is because the first five applications of Devastate have a substantial Innate Threat bonus and provide an immediate boost to physical damage from both the tank and party/raid members. Once five Sunder Armor debuffs have been applied, use Revenge as outlined.

If you are pulling a raid boss but do not have a Hunter Misdirection available, use Bloodrage and open with a Devastate/Heroic Strike combination. This reduces the chance of losing aggro early in the event that one of these attacks misses.


Additional Notes
Use Heroic Strike at 40+ Rage in high rage environments, at 50+ Rage in low-rage environments such as 5-mans.

What's important is that Shield Slam and Revenge are used on cooldown. If you shout or use another ability in place of a Devastate, get back to Shield Slam and Revenge immediately.

Keeping the above in mind, if you have high latency (500ms+), cycle only the first three abilities in the rotation; do not use both Devastates.

If you have less than 9 Rage and Revenge is on cooldown, use Shield Bash. It is more important to use an ability than to miss a global cooldown waiting for more Rage.

Shield Block is used independently of your other abilities. Unless you know you can handle the damage, always keep it active.



Multi Target
Multi-target threat does not follow a straightforward rotation but instead a set of guidelines. You must become intuitively aware of when you can safely stop building aggro on targets and how stable your rage intake is. While the following can be used for two targets, it is designed for handling three or more targets.

Thunder Clap should be used every 4.5 seconds, or every third cooldown. Use Thunder Clap at the beginning of a pull when targets are in your immediate vicinity.

Use Shield Slam if you have consistent enough Rage that Thunder Clap will be available and you can still use Devastate between the two.

Choose only to use Devastate on targets with less than five Sunder Armor applications if you are unable to use Shield Slam reliably. After five Sunder Armor applications on a given target, also use Revenge.

Choose only to use Devastate on targets you can reliably hold aggro on that are being focus fired at the time, assuming physical DPS classes are in the party or raid.

Use Cleave if you are above 50 Rage and you have consistent Rage intake. This will be most useful when tanking content you do not outgear in areas such as Heroic Shattered Halls and Mount Hyjal.

If the first target to be killed does not have exceptionally high Health, use as few Threat abilities as possible on it; have Taunt ready in case aggro is lost. Use the cooldowns instead to build Threat on all other targets in the pull either through effective Tab targeting or a mouseover Devastate macro.


Additional Notes
If you are not familiar with the nuances of the Tab Target function, consider using a mouseover Devastate macro for ease of use. This macro is:
Code:
#show Devastate
/cast [target=mouseover, harm, nodead] [] Devastate
Pressing 'V' using the default keybinds pulls up Health bars for enemies. Have this active for multi-target pulls and pay particular attention to enemies that are still at or very near full life; this may mean you have not built enough Threat on them and should throw a Shield Slam, Devastate, or Revenge their way.

Improved Thunderclap provides a substantial benefit to AOE tanking. If possible, this should be included in any build for a Warrior that intends to tank multiple targets.

Shield Spikes such as [item]Felsteel Shield Spike[/item] are by far the most effective Shield enchant for aggro. Coupled with pieces of gear that emphasize Shield Block Rating such as [item]Seventh Ring of the Tirisfalen[/item] these can have a noticeable impact on Threat. If you need Stamina on your shield for progression tanking, consider using your next oldest shield as your spike shield.

If you'll be tanking something in the next 5-10 seconds, consider getting it out of crowd control with a Taunt and Shield Slam. If there are only a few mobs and you want more rage, break crowd control. If you don't need CC at all... don't use it.

Taunt locks your target on you for three seconds. After a few seconds on your main target at the beginning of a pull, consider Taunting your target and switching to another target to lay down a Devastate or Shield Slam, then switch back. Taunt buys you the full cooldown without any risk of losing the target.

Let other party members take hits from the first mob to be killed when it makes sense. Many caster mobs never need to be tanked or CC'd in 5-mans. Steamvault Sirens are a good example of this -- tanking them is unnecessary, and by virtue of moving into melee range of one, she uses her fear. Since you're only reducing spell damage by 10-16%, you're not exactly a mile ahead of cloth-wearers in situations where the spell damage is not particularly large. Let the DPS kill the primary caster target first while you focus on aggro on the rest of the pull. Effective use of Spell Reflect, especially as you move into high damage instances such as Magister's Terrace, is preferable.

Demoralizing Shout is relatively ineffective and in some cases can negate the Threat gains by lowering your Rage intake from damage.
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  #2  
Old 05-04-2008, 06:00 AM
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I am concerned about the opening attack(s), not just in raid bosses but in general trash pulls where you are not concerned about missing as much. Is there a point in SBV that you would want to reach before you would want to use Shield Slam for an opener? I remember reading somewhere on this site that someone liked to open up with a shield slam. However, it is a good idea to go with the devastate/HS combo just to reduce your chance of missing.
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Old 05-04-2008, 06:06 PM
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In general trash pulls or any multi-target group you want to open with either a single Devastate or a single Shield Slam, depending on your preference and how much rage you want left over to hit another target.
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  #4  
Old 05-05-2008, 01:38 AM
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I seem to have some problems tanking HC Dungeons even Ramps which should be atleast one of the easyest dungeons. I know my eq isn't the best but can't really get better without doing dungeons.

Hmm... For me to really well i need atleast 1 mage and 1 rogue or 2 mages in group to do good. And even then when i need to hold agro on more then one target i tend to lose one or more target and then people tend to die.

But i can see i didn't do it the right way with my rotations, i used sunder armour and shield slam and revenge when i noticed them being useable.

You surgest not using Sunder amour at all? with your rotation of Shield Slam, Revenge, Devastate, Devastate. <- Is that on all mobs

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  #5  
Old 05-05-2008, 03:39 AM
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As soon as you have Devastate, there's no point in using Sunder Armor any more, ever. (Two possible exceptions: building threat on CC'ed targets, and building threat on damage-immune mobs, such as the elementals before Curator in Karazhan)

In other words, drop Sunder, use Devastate instead.

Additionally, a proper ability rotation will usually only be applicable when tanking a single mob. In multimob situations, the priorities remain the same - Shield slam > Revenge > Devastate - but obviously, you have to spread threat smartly across the enemies. Usually, you'll use the large threat moves against the main target, and cycle devastate across the other targets to hold aggro against healing/AE. Don't forget to Thunderclap and Cleave as rage, GCD and situation allows.

As far as I am concerned, there is no rotation for multitanking above two mobs, and even with two, ability use very much depends on how much damage (and thus healing) you take, how disciplined your DPS are, etc.

Last edited by Temig; 05-05-2008 at 10:09 AM. Reason: small edit for clarity
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  #6  
Old 05-06-2008, 02:19 PM
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and building threat on damage-immune mobs, such as the elementals before Curator in Karazhan)
Afaik, they arent damage immune. They have a mana shield, thus damage done reduces their mana till they have none...then pop goes their health.

I agree that once one has devastate, i don't see much use for sunder armor (unless maybe just to generate agro on cc'd targets? /shrug).
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  #7  
Old 05-09-2008, 12:58 AM
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This has been substantially updated.
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  #8  
Old 05-09-2008, 02:04 AM
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Afaik, they arent damage immune. They have a mana shield, thus damage done reduces their mana till they have none...then pop goes their health.
Correct, bad wording on my part. I'm not certain about what that means for threat generation though. I seem to lose them to healers far more often than makes sense, even considering their aggro reset upon teleporting. This gives me the feeling that they do not register damage done to evaluate threat levels, which would mean that sunder is superior to devastate after 5 applications.

Since the discussion does not really serve the topic however, I will let the issue drop here. I'll see if I can get any testing done to look into this matter and if so, will post in a separate thread.
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  #9  
Old 05-09-2008, 04:16 AM
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Updated again. All Threat related information will now be held in this thread.
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  #10  
Old 05-09-2008, 04:37 AM
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Any reference for threat values for Druid abilities?

Reason I ask is I'm leveling a feral druid and wondering what a tanking rotation would be.
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Old 05-09-2008, 04:55 AM
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i just realized this is under warrior reference..disregard my stupid question..lol
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  #12  
Old 05-09-2008, 04:55 AM
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Updated again. All Threat related information will now be held in this thread.
Nevermind that.

Source: Galushi
Any reference for threat values for Druid abilities?
No, not in this section at least. Check w/ Fame.
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  #13  
Old 05-09-2008, 05:47 AM
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If you are not familiar with the nuances of the Tab Target function, consider using a mouseover Devastate macro for ease of use. This macro is:
Code:
#show Devastate
/cast [target=mouseover, harm, nodead] [] Devastate

Without having tested it, I'll point out that an empty bracket pair tends to do nothing; I suggest the following amendment:

Code:
#show Devastate
/cast [target=mouseover, harm, nodead] Devastate
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  #14  
Old 05-09-2008, 07:04 AM
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I have found Oil of Immolation useful as a supplement to the other advice given here for multi-mob tanking, though my experience is limited to low-level instances.

WoWDB link: Oil of Immolation - Items - WOWDB
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  #15  
Old 05-09-2008, 07:08 AM
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Great info thanks CH.

One thing I've found that works great for multitarget tanking is a mouseover macro for sunder/devastate. If I jut wave my pointer over the mobs while spamming that macro and Tclapping anytime it's up I can AoE tank almost as well as a prot pally. Well...maybe not that good.
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Old 05-09-2008, 09:17 AM
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Without having tested it, I'll point out that an empty bracket pair tends to do nothing; I suggest the following amendment:

Code:
#show Devastate
/cast [target=mouseover, harm, nodead] Devastate

The empty brackets are for an "empty" Devasate. Basically the same as adding "; Devastate" at the end of yours, but shorter. If you use only your macro there, you can only Devastate on targets that you're hovering your mouse over. The empty brackets allow you to use Devastate as normal.
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  #17  
Old 05-09-2008, 04:47 PM
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What about Demoralizing Shout?

I've seen people suggesting spamming it and Thunderclap to tank multiples, but you don't mention it here.

Is it to be used just for the debuff?

Edit: Thanks. Found it.

Last edited by Rastus; 05-09-2008 at 07:35 PM.
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  #18  
Old 05-09-2008, 04:50 PM
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I do mention it. Use CTRL + F in your browser to find it.
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  #19  
Old 05-10-2008, 12:46 PM
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Let other party members take hits from the first mob to be killed when it makes sense. Many caster mobs never need to be tanked or CC'd in 5-mans. Steamvault Sirens are a good example of this -- tanking them is unnecessary, and by virtue of moving into melee range of one, she uses her fear. Since you're only reducing spell damage by 10-16%, you're not exactly a mile ahead of cloth-wearers in these situations. Let the DPS kill the primary caster target first while you focus on aggro on the rest of the pull.

Hi Cider, thank you for consistently producing some of the best tanking information out there. I've been reading your guide since Miles To Go, and this is my first post on TankSpot! /cherry pop

I wanted to add a couple of things to the question of whether or not to tank or CC casters. First, warriors do take 10-16% less magical damage from casters, but we also typically have anywhere from 50-100% more health than most of the rest of our party, so by taking the damage ourselves we can give the healer a little more breathing room. For a place like Steamvaults this isn't an issue because the caster mobs don't do much damage. But for a place like Magister's Terrace where there's enough magical damage going out that it can easily kill someone, it could help to tank the casters.

Second, Spell Reflect! Spell Reflect tanking is loads of fun, and can be effective. So in addition everything you've said about not tanking weak mobs like the Sirens, another option is to SR tank them from a distance. The spells you don't reflect give rage to help with tanking the melee mobs, and the spells you do reflect allow you to tank the caster, and it can potentially do a fair bit of damage before the group turns it's DPS on the caster.

I'm only bringing this up because the value of SR was made especially clear when I got into Magisters Terrace for the first time. Figured I'd point it out as another option for warriors.
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Old 05-10-2008, 04:49 PM
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Mangea,

I've added the note about spell reflect and specified the difference between heavy damage areas. Thanks!
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