[Snorrarcisco]

I know both are related and I am making the question regarding some of my guilds memebers dps vs damage they put. I have a couple of members I am concerning about and explaining. I have a mage putting out 3600dps and then my shammie puts 3400 but out damage the mage by almost a good 800k.

I havent found anything on this and there is problably a post somewhere and for that I am sorry to have created another one. But it is bugging me and no the mage lives untill the end of the fight as me on my shaman.

Is there any valid reason why a person with a high dps rate produces low damage? or vice versa?

I am usually a tank on my main so that is why dps and damage done are not usually my priority to learn.

[kwag]

DPS means Damage Per Second, but it i only per second of "Active Time." That is, time spent actively doing damage to the boss. On a fight like Valks or Jaraxxus, where an Arcane mage will be doing little to no damage while moving around to avoid fires, adds or balls, this means that the casters will have less time to actually do damage than the melee, since moving is much more of a problem for them. If your shaman is elemental, it just means that you are slightly better at movement, or that you keep dots up while you're moving, and the mage doesn't. DoTs ticking while no other damage is going into a mob (because you're moving) is a great way to get a tiny bit more damage, but it will kill your DPS number.

DPS is a secondary stat, for the most part. Just go by damage done.

[Theotherone]

Mages, like Hunters can up their dps significantly using AoE attacks. When I volley into something like the Whelps in Ony, I'll get a flurry of Crits all at one time and the dps will go up like crazy, but the actual damage done will be lower then if I'm single targeting. Same deal with a Mage. Next time you see that go to recount and see if the Mage was casting any AoE attacks.

And like the post above says, movement plays such a big role in dps, that if it's a movement fight or target switch fight (Nobalds come to mind) there will be wide variances.

[Akeber]

Source: Theotherone When I volley into something like the Whelps in Ony, I'll get a flurry of Crits all at one time and the dps will go up like crazy, but the actual damage done will be lower then if I'm single targeting.

Not really. You are doing more "damage per second" on the whelps, and therefore more damage in total than you could by single targeting each whelp.

The DPS/damage relationship means nothing without context, and comparing across classes/specs or between toons with different assigned "tasks" in encounters furthur complicates matters.

Assuming the mage is arcane, and you are elemental, the mage is spending too much time "not casting". This could be due to movement, sometimes a player will be targetted for a boss ability that requires them to move several times in a row, that's going to hurt even the best player's damage output.

The fact is, they both matter and are related. Neither will tell you anything without the other, and only when all the other variables are taken into account.

[MellvarTank]

I've noticed that some classes also require time to get through the rotation to establish high DPS (casters usually) which will have an effect on their overal damage when taking out adds/trash for example.

Think of it this way (I'll use druids because I know the most about them): Druids need to eclipse to hit the best numbers in boomkin. They also have a set rotation. If it takes them approximately 30 seconds (just as an example) to hit the rotation and eclipse, but the add/trash dies in 20 seconds... they will be low on the dps/damage whereas a class like a fury warrior which has no "ramp up" time will top out dps and damage right away. Now, on a boss fight where it lasts 3-5 minutes, you will notice that the ranged classes who can get through the rotations really top out dps/damage done on that boss, but if the rotation is constantly getting reset (by fears/fire/whatever you need to move out of) the dps will be high, but the damage will be low as the actual time they are killing the boss is lower. If that is the case (where the ranged are always moving), you will notice that again the fury warrior (with no "ramp-up" time) is high on the damage done, but lower on the dps scale.

As said, they are related, and both important.

To put it simply: Steady (turtle) or Fast/bursty (hair). You need both types of DPS.

[Skyborn]

Source: kwag DPS is a secondary stat, for the most part. Just go by damage done.

I support this, and don't want it to get lost in the discussion. It's the simple answer.

Edit: The complex answer like MellvarTank got into above, is that sometimes you need some really good snap DPS to match some fight mechanic like shattering an add or burning down something important. But in the average fight if I were a RL I'd value Damage Done over DPS.

[Kazeyonoma]

Both DPS and Damage Done are figures that are good to look at if you know what you're dealing with.

DPS is a good measure of players ability to do consistent damage, this is generally important because it lets you know how strong a class is given the duration of the fight. However, due to mechanics of fights, DPS fluctuates greatly if say, an ability forces melee to have to run out but range can stay put, or vice versa the boss does a silencing effect which doesn't affect melee. Or there's lots of movement.

DPS is a gauge of overall effectiveness.
Damage Done is a gauge of a players ability to use his overall effectiveness to maximum potential.

[rugbyprop3]

A lot of this comes back to active dps time, which most combat log tools will allow you to see. Looking at that percentage will let you see if that person is efficiently managing the fight, working to actively dps as often as possible.

[Muffin Man]

Source: Kazeyonoma However, due to mechanics of fights, DPS fluctuates greatly if say, an ability forces melee to have to run out but range can stay put, or vice versa the boss does a silencing effect which doesn't affect melee. Or there's lots of movement.

Just to emphasis that one way of using dps and damage done accurately is to compare like with like.

It's really no fair to compare a caster to melee on a fight like Auriaya (or Northrend Beasts). In the same way it's pointless to compare melee to casters on Vezax (and I think Hunters just get the worst of both worlds).

[Kaioken]

Yeah, for DPS vs Damage Done, you have to take each fight into consideration. On Patchwerk, having the highest DPS usually equates into having the most damage done because there's like....zero mechanics and all you do is practice your rotation.

DPS = How much damage you did within a specified time period per second (average).
Damage Done = Damage taken by all enemies from you.

DPS would be important on a fight like Firefighter, especially in phase 3 because adds can become hectic if you don't kill them quick enough. Damage done would be important on a fight like Algalon, in which your DPS can be heavily inflated by Living Constellation damage done and becomes somewhat inaccurate to gauge performance.

Personally, I find damage taken by bosses, or damage done to be the true storyteller of how people are performing, but I do take DPS in consideration because it is a good indicator of how a DPS'er is effectively using his combat time.

[swelt]

The difference can also highlight the skill of the player. A player that knows their rotations well but is slow on target switching, slow on getting into combat, not very smart at moving to stay in range of the target, etc will contribute less damage than the more skilled and experienced player that stays on target longer. For example, a mage who just can't stand still. When not moving, his damage is fine but because he keeps adjusting position he loses a lot of damage. If he was smarter (more economical) with his movements his damage contribution would go up.

[leansoli]

Damage Done > DPS.

Your DPS is a way of measuring the potential damage output a given player will have in the same fighting conditions. Comparing a melee vs a caster, at some point is useless, but it will tell you how good that player reacts when facing adversities.

If you have 2 players, same class and similar specs, equal DPS but differences in damage done, it could only mean one of these things:

1) lower damage player died and rezzed
2) went afk for a while, or he kept switching targets due to fight mechanics (losing damage in the process)
3) finger problems. This is usually it if the fight is known to your raid and 1 and/or 2 don't apply. Bad rotation or no rotation at all.

[Talho]

I have a question related to this...what is DPS vs Active DPS?
for example...on a 25ToGC fight yesterday, my recount showed me at a certain DPS, but when the wowmeteronline parse was uploaded to WMO, the dps used for the ranking was 1k lower than what showed in my recount (the dks and rogues only had a difference of 200)

on WMO: it lists DPS (which is 1k lower than my recount but used for the rankings) and then Active DPS (which is about what I got for my recount)

So whats the difference between DPS and Active DPS?

[MellvarTank]

I believe it factors in your presence (idle time) during the fight. Check to see what your presence was (percentage wise) and if it is a lower number than the rogues', then you are likely standing around too much.

[Talho]

Hmm my presence is 100%, however there is a category for "DPS time"
in which I was 92%, and the DK and rogue were at 97%

This "DPS time" is probably the culprit, what is this and is it the same as presence?

The fight was a stationary burn boss fight though...I dont see how I could be at 92% only...ended up with top dps and damage done, but 92% dps time when I never moved and kept attacking entire fight...

[Stymie]

Both numbers are important to look at. When I am trying to work with DPS in my guild, I look at each number to try and pin-point their problem and better be able to help them.

For myself, I consider DPS a check on how well a player knows their DPS rotation or priority, how their gear should be setup, and the mechanics of a given fight (if it's a fight with DPS variables). If the DPS seems low, I try to look in these directions.

If I see two players with near-equal DPS but a large gap in damage done, then the potential issues are different. I actually had this come up recently. Some friends wanted to do a Sarth 10 +3 Drakes run for a mount and the title. We had four caster DPS in the group -- two warlocks, who are good raiders, and an Elemental Shaman and an Arcane mage who are casuals who are still learning. We had a couple wipes because we came up short on DPS. The Warlocks both did in the range of 5200 DPS with around 330,000 damage done. The Mage and Shaman each did around 4800 DPS, but with only around 220,000 damage done.

Both the mage and shaman were friends with one of the warlock, so I pulled them in a channel to talk about it. I explained the differences between DPS and damage done, and the idea of DPS Uptime. We talked about how certain things are just as important to a DPS race as your rotation -- being ready at the start of a fight so you cut back the "ramp up" time on your DPS and don't waste too much time getting into position. Also, knowing the correct positioning in a movement fight so you DPS from a point where you only have to move slightly during something like Lava Churn, rather than having to run 10 yards and losing that DPS time.

On the next pull, they were on their mounts longer, hit the right spot quicker, nuked from a point where they didn't have to run far during lava churn, et cetera. Both of them did the same DPS but jumped to about 290,000 damage done and we got our drake mount.

Learning to be efficient in DPS uptime is something a lot of people miss out on, because it doesn't translate as well into EJ Mechanics threads on DPS or Patchwerk fights.

[Synapse]

One is a reflex of the other, and classes influence that a lot.
A paladin will typically do full dps from the second gcd onwards
An unholy dk won't do full dps till the second rotation.
A warrior won't do full dps till the target's sundered
A rogue won't do full dps til he brings the first Slice&dice.


The faster they get "ready", the better for fights with quick switching.
Then you have more than one monster. WIth more than one it varies: full aoe(blizzard, pestilence+d&d, consecration, volley) capabilities are better for bigger groups, while splash damage(cleave, hammer of the righteous, divine storm, heart strike, pestilence) benefits fights like anub and twins immensely.

[Legionodeath]

DPS vs Damage: Which is REALLY important?

Check this out...

-LoD