[Krenian]

As a DPSer I usually am rather obsessed with what does what damage and how exactly things work. I always am analyzing why exactly things happen at certain points and I found myself quite discouraged last night while raiding. Then, as the night went on, I started realizing a few things and started thinking about the situation at hand. I finally have come to the point that I must write about something that most people NEED to come to an understanding before they either give up on Dual Wielding frost due to it's numbers or think that they're doing something wrong.
Now, the first thing is this: Dual Wield Frost has the potential to easily do a great amount of damage. I was doing great on some of the fights, not so great on others. Within my raid, we have three Death Knights: One tank and two DPS. All three of us know our jobs very well and know exactly what must be done and when to maximize ourselves. (Kudos to my other Death Knight DPSer as he is an amazing player and can consistently beat me in DPS on some fights. The guy's just a beast.) However, the differences between Blood and Frost Dual Wielding became quite apparent as I was watching Recount and analyzing my World of Logs. Let me illustrate a few things that may actually happen when you are playing with a competent player:

1) Frost Death Knights really...really lack in cooldowns. The standard 53/18 build suggested has one major flaw and it's that of not taking UA. Now, you could take Unbreakable Armor and take a point out of Killing Machine for the ability, and get 20% Strength every 2 minutes, however one thing must be noted: That's all we get. The ability is pretty much an AP trinket that boosts your damage. It's a great scaling trinket (You're always going to get more and more strength which means you'll always get more AP with this ability as progression goes along), however it's just that. Blood however has two things going for it:

a) Dancing Rune Weapon: Love it or Hate it, firing this at the right time is a significant DPS increase that Frost would love to have. It is DPS you CAN control easily that will do a significant portion of damage. Even having been changed to a simple 12 second cast (Plus the glyph will give you a total of 18 seconds of DPS with the weapon out), timing it at the right phases gives Blood a HUGE increase in damage. Combine this with a 1.5 minute cooldown and Blood can use an ability that increases their damage every 3 minutes, where Frost only has an item every 4 minutes that may only slightly increase all of their attacks for a set amount of time.

b) The Ghoul. Whether you just summon the little bugger or use Army of the Dead, most Blood specs grab the two points in Ravenous Dead. Why? Because they can get those two points and the points are actually well worth it. No matter what, a Death Knight should be using his Ghoul when it's off CD. Timing it right however will always give you a higher dps margin. The fact that Blood dips and gets that ability increases the damage that the ghoul will push out. Combine this with a lower cooldown and increased AoE resistance, and your ghoul is a bit sturdier (If not dumb because you can't control the bugger), and will push out more damage. Having an extra ability they can fire off every 3 and a half minutes with DRW will help with the damage increase, big time. Oh and I still will maintain that DRW > UB. Even with it's new changes, I cannot see UB beating DRW very often due to the way you gear and the talents you lack to help UB do more damage.

You would think that these two abilities are nothing compared to the grand scheme of things right? Well no. Observe: While DPSing, the numbers go up and down depending on how well you're doing your job and doing things. All of a sudden, a part opens up where more damage can be done to the boss. The Blood Death Knight releases all of his CDs at that moment, including Hysteria and goes to town and his DPS gets a HUGE boost during that time before it starts lowering and evening out due to having bursted that much and not being able to sustain it (A problem that Blood has always had.) Frost, during that time, pops and ability that may give them Strength, yes, however...that's it. They don't have the ability to have a pet that may actually live through a potential damage dealing section (Granted, this is a weak argument as most 'damage heightening' parts, the mobs aren't doing too much damage to kill your ghoul), nor do they have a true cooldown to push off instant damage such as Blood does. With this in mind, it becomes increasingly bothersome to watch your Blood Death Knight absolutely skyrocket in DPS while you're sitting there and getting a slight increase but truly are lagging behind because your build is meant to be sustained DPS, not a fight where you burst out.

In no way am I trying to write this as a manner of nerfing the Blood Death Knight's damage output. I absolutely adore my Blood builds when I played them and it gave me Goosebumps to see the huge numbers that Blood is capable of pulling off. This is more of a lament on my part about Frost lacking an ability to do sudden bursts like our other two specs: As Blood has their Dancing Rune Weapon and Hysteria, Unholy has their Gargoyle. As much as the guy isn't the greatest, most sturdy little bugger around, he's still a burst dps tool and if properly used, can enhance an Unholy Death Knight's power.

Now some of you may argue that we get a talent where our damage is increased by 12% as soon as the mob goes under 35 percent (Merciless Combat) but let me offer a counter argument to this.

First, that is still 65% of the starting damage that is done before this buff comes into effect. With that in mind, there are some particular sections of a fight where Heroism will be used at the start of a phase that you can do more damage which really negates this benefit: We get nothing, the rest get damage increase. The only thing we can do is pop our UA, drink our Speed Pot and go to town.

The second and much stronger point that will be argued here is that there truly is only 15-20% of the mob’s health that this ability will really shine. The reason I am stating this is because of the fact that classes have abilities that they can activate at around 20% or less to do more consistent damage. This in turn places more DPS onto the mob and less time to really do any damage. The last 20% of a mob is where most damage tends to ramp up and the damage simply pours out of certain classes (Execute from Warriors, Hammer of Wrath for Paladins, Kill Shot for Hunters, etc). These abilities heighten the damage the mob is taking and as such, will usually devalue our own ability. As such, our damage output is not as strong as it could be.

Make no doubt about it: sustaining DPS, we will trump the other specs. I will consistently do an average number all the time. But with the methods of how Ulduar bosses currently are, this doesn’t help Frost whatsoever, due to having certain ‘peak times’ in which a DPS should utilize every skill they have in their arsenal. Ours simply increases our attack power.

In short, people need to realize that Dual Wielding as a Death Knight will come at a cost: If any fight is around that must be bursted down at certain points in said fight, the Frost DW DK will have issues. At that point, Unholy DW DKs may do better because of their Gargoyle as well as the buffs to the Ghoul/lower CD. In the end, you really want to be aware of what your class can or cannot do. You will have to utilize your builds (A huge suggestion would be to get dual spec and spec accordingly, you will need it.) and use what specs are offered depending upon the situation. But if you expect to see mindblowing numbers out of Dual Wielding: think again, as all fights are situational and quite different.

In conclusion, I leave you with some words that Fargom, a DW Death Knight on the WoW forums has voiced and which I completely agree with: Play the style in which you want, there is no such thing as the ‘best spec’. Each spec really plays with how comfortable with what you are doing. Find the spec that fits you perfectly, that makes you feel like you can do your best, and go with it. Yes, you can learn every spec and do well and learn it so you actually pull out strong numbers, but in the end, one must always remember to have fun with what you do. If you simply cannot pull out the numbers you are happy with, then maybe you are not comfortable enough for the spec and may want to return to Blood.

As for me, two Death Knights when dpsing are Blood. I will be the the odd man out and dual wield until I can get comfortable enough with it and see what tricks I can pull out.

[Chiron]

You pretty much summed it up right there. Every spec has it's perks and downsides, and each spec will perform differently depending on the situation. But in the end, it's what you like the most.

I was 2H Frost before the patch, and now I'm DW Frost. The only thing I had to switch around really was the fact that I'm not sitting on Unholy Presence anymore, so it took me a little to get used to the slower GCD of Blood. However, certain places I stay the same in DPS than before, some places I rise above it (Although I cry when Rime procs 6 times on the Obliterate part of my rotation).

Even though with some slight gearing changes, it's still Frost, and I still love it.

[Kyntaero]

I was wondering if it would be possible for you to post 2 DPS builds. 1 for frost 2h dps, and the 2nd for frost DW, just so I can see how I like them. ALso, if I do decide to go DW Frost DPS,....do I want weapons with str or agi? I'm probablly the most casual player in the game. I don't study as much as I should. I read guides, and sometimes I get it and sometimes I don't. My DK is my alt, but have been asked to tank more and more due to my guilds shortage of tanks. My main is a Frostfire mage, so as you have aleady gathered,...BIG difference.

Any help would be greatly welcomed.

Thx Krenian

[Krenian]

I'll be explaining builds as soon as I update the guide, which will be this coming weekend. Stay tuned for that and you'll see what you need.

Strength is preferred for a weapon, naturally, but the best weapons for us have Agility. Just take the weapon with the slowest speed and highest dps and be content with that and the fact that agility is bleh for us, but is the only stat on weapons. If you find a slow strength + weapon, then by all means, take it.

[Zivh]

At least pre-3.2, there aren't even any epic level 80 1handers with strength other than tanking weapons.

[Krenian]

Let this post not mislead you to think that it's just a comparison between Blood and Frost. It's easily switchable with a Unholy vs Frost position as well, however Unholy only has the Gargoyle to help out the dps during burst phase.

The key point of this post is to highlight that Frost at this time has a lower potential of damage burst on demand than the other two specs. This can lead a lot of the Ulduar fights to show misleading numbers. The point is to make people realize not to worry too much about it because there are some fights you just simply cannot win as dual wielding frost due to the lack of burst. The suggestion could be to be dual wield unholy for certain burst phases to have that perma ghoul and burst.

[Pruke]

Krenian, since I was formerly blood dps what I am trying to gather now is what type of gearing and gems to use. When you write your guide are you intending to cover this type of information?

Since I was blood my gear mainly contains all armor pen and is gemmed for strength. My logic is this can't be a bad thing, since arp and str are dps stats. But as some other builds in the past, crit was more important then arp. I am just wanting to be sure that I choose the best gear for the role, not just what works.

I am not a full time DPS, as the main tank I tend to always tank in progression and only rotate out with our DPS DK when he has gotten strong enough gear for the farm content. Like last night I dps'd on ignis, I got slag potted twice so I noticed I went from 5700 to 5100 dps and lost some ground. Granted, I am sure my rotation is no where near as perfect as someone who dps's all the time. But since I strive to be good at any role and since I hardly get to dps I do I rely heavily on information from posts to help give me any edge I can because I don't get much practice.

Thanks for your thoughts on frost v blood. I can totally agree with your points.

I will do my best to log out in my DPS gear. Not that I expect an "rate my armory" response, but in case you want to see what I typically use if I am dpsing.

[Krenian]

The guide doesn't really change in how you gear up. Frost has changed in only one retrospect: ArP is good but not as good as it is for Blood.

Frost is your middle tree. Half damage, half magic damage. This is because Howling Blast, Icy Touch and to the lesser extent Frost Strike (The magic component of the skill) does not get affected at all by ArP. On the other hand, Obliterate, Blood Strike and Plague Strike are all physical damage, and Obliterate's your main focus of damage and scales very well with ArP. In this situation, ArP benefits you. But it is nothing as strong as it does in Blood.

Don't shy away from the gear, but don't absolutely force yourself to spec/gear/gem ArP. AP and Strength is still, by far, your better stat as Frost.

[Hades]

Krenian, your above post in mind, would it be beneficial to gem in a little spell pen as well as frost DPS? Not enough for say, an arena team (recommended 2 stormy sky saphires, maybe three) but just enough to make sure HB is really truckin'? I plan on respecing to a DW single disease Frost build in my DPS spec, and doing off-time 3s skirmishes with that build as well. I fully understand these should be separated, but I'm also MT for my guild. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Hades

[Krenian]

Oooh you're delving into the realm of the unknown when it comes to PvP my friend. I'm one of those peoples that have been avoiding the PvP scenario like the plague because I simply dislike the PvP in WoW.

If I remember correctly, Spell Penetration simply helps go through the resistance that people would put up. Spells that go against certain elements, totems, buffs, whatever...that's why you want Spell Pen. It's not the greatest of tools and it really has no business in PvE situations, but it's there if you need it. I wouldn't, personally, but if you think you need to penetrate those pesky frost resistances such as mages and shamans and paladins can put down, by all means do. But this is a HUGE educated guess on my end because I simply don't know the intricacies of pvping.