[greendragonempire]

Source: Kazeyonoma you're still doing it wrong, you're basing it on the entire damage of your hs crit. but all HS does is make it hit for 495 more damage. THAT is what you need to double up. because THAT is what is getting increased. just multiplying the 2500 damage is wrong.

i was only multiplying it by the extra 2500dmg 15/100 atks, meaning the 15% crit i get from incite.

Here is a dps cycle

charge
0: rend
1: MS
2: -----
3: -----
4: SD (1)
5: OP
6: sunder
7: MS
8: -----
9: -----
10: SD (2)
11: OP
12: -----
13: MS
14: tc
15: -----
16: -----
17: OP
18: SD (3) (overpower proc)
19: MS
20: -----
21: -----
22: OP
23: rend
24: SD (4)
25: MS
26: -----
27: OP
28: (overpower proc)

4 SD (with 2 points imp) = 600 dmg

replacing all the ---------- with slam, occurs 10 times, which crits 40% of the time
(2000 + 250 * 6) + (2000 + 250 * 2 * 4) = 13500 + 18000 = 31500 + 600 = 32100 dmg using slam + imp sd

1146.42 dps over 28s

replacing ------------- with hs which is a 2:1 ratio of SUDDEN DEATH
occurs 10 times, with a crit rate of 40+15% = 55%
(2000 + 495 * 4.5) + (2000 + 495 * 2 * 5.5) = 11227.5 + 27445 = 38672.5 dmg using heroic strike

1381.14 dps over 28s

you may ask, why not just slam AND hs during those time periods

this works because heroic strike glyph returns 10 rage on crit, incite adds to crit percent, there is tons of aoe dmg in uldar giving you enough rage to do EITHER slam or hs on this cycle, not both, as I have found out.

the best reason, i dont ahve to micromanage slam at all and my dps is on par with switching from hs to slam, if not better.

[Kazeyonoma]

It's worth trying I suppose.

[shiz98]

I've found myself using HS a decent amount. Sometimes due to movement and high environmental damage I end up having a full rage bar with a fresh swing, and other times I'm just taking massive damage (on XT's tantrums, for example, I HS a lot). However, I usually hold off on HS even if I have high rage - it's definitely not worth missing an Execute or MS for when procs are on your side. I really only use it when I absolutely know I will be getting the rage back in the near future.

I'm also with Kaze on the swing timer - it's really not that useful. You don't really change your rotation based on it unless you're balancing executes, and even then it's a minor difference (tip: if you're spamming execute, dual wield). I personally use it because I've never gone without it since the good old days of Imp. Slam in TBC, and I've gotten used to having the slight edge in awareness. I really doubt it's actually a DPS increase though.

[Rishkkin]

Usually I'd don't DW-spam execute, I stick to my rotation.

As far as the swing timer goes, maybe that with better gear and a "better" group setup this becomes a non issue. Remember I have no WF or Icy Talon in our raids, so I loose a significant speed buff, which has the side effect of lowering the speed at which I get rage.

[cucullin]

sorry, i got a bit confused mid way through thread. so have there been any real determination on the strength vs ArP gemming issue? i know EJ is a bit up in the air as well. i am coming up on being capped on all fronts and was wondering as to what stat to gem for after that.

also kaze, keep posting man, ive been reading and relying on you for awhile. your a great source of information for us deeps warriors. i thank you.

[Daavos]

Source: cucullin sorry, i got a bit confused mid way through thread. so have there been any real determination on the strength vs ArP gemming issue? i know EJ is a bit up in the air as well. i am coming up on being capped on all fronts and was wondering as to what stat to gem for after that. also kaze, keep posting man, ive been reading and relying on you for awhile. your a great source of information for us deeps warriors. i thank you.

In a blue post, GC said they didn't want ArP to be so good that you Gem and enchant everything for ArP at the expense of your other stats. He also said ArP is currently working as intended.

I'd stick with strength until more data becomes available as strength scales better.

[Kazeyonoma]

I'm getting mixed numbers in my actual use. I definitely am not suffering by changing out my gear to ArP in raids. But I question if it made much of a huge difference.

According to landsoul's sheet because of how much ArP I have now, it is valued at 1.1 arP, higher than STR, so I'll continue grabbing for it. Against the test dummy my numbers went down so I was discouraged but fully raid buffed I found myself throwing out some pretty sick numbers, especially when grim toll proc'd. I think if I can get my hands on a good dps mace (titansteel destroyer doesn't count imo!) then I'll see huge improvements.

I'll log on real quick and show my current gear setup. With this it has me at 1.083 SEP for ArP actually, but I've got 7.5 helm token that I'm considering grabbing for the ArP, but I need to fill in some hit somewhere to prevent rage starvation... but again, the overally DPS increase because of the heavy weight on ArP might make it worth it. I'll have to play around with my ranged weapons (I have some that I think will drop minor amounts of ap/crit but give hit) and balance out the losses from the spiked titansteel.

Currently going from my current gear the sheet says I should be putting out 4886.4 dps (of course this is considering optimal performance and what not).

Regemming to all STR, and switching out my legplates of double strikes to valorous dreadnaught brings down my dps t 4782.69, about 100 dps drop.

So far, I'm liking it, despite what GC says =P but my fellow dps warriors are staying clear of ArP until I give them the okay, and they seem to be putting out numbers around the same range as me too so...

[shiz98]

Keep in mind that while regemming from Strength to ArP may not give you a DPS increase now, it makes the next points of ArP worth even more. So if you hit the point where ArP is worth one SEP, you're going to want to convert over to it entirely - tou won't necessarily see a DPS increase, but it will make any future ArP more effective. Strength doesn't scale with itself, so there's no downside to keeping ArP high. Say you come across a piece of gear with 40 more ArP than your current piece. Two scenarios here:

1. You kept your STR gear. 1 ArP = 1 SEP, so the helmet gives you 40 SEP.

2. You regemmed for ArP. 1 ArP = 1.1 SEP, so the helmet gives you 44 SEP.

Option 2 is always going to win out in the long run.

[Bivvz]

so i just went Arms post 3.1 since it seems it might work out better than fury. but when it comes down to it...being ArP is apparently bugged??...am i regemming or not, right now im STR gemmed, i have a set of ArP gems waiting but I guess im lazy and dont want to fully re gem to find out that there really is no different or i take a DPS hit.

[cucullin]

kaze are you remaining axe spec through all this testing, or are you mace for the extra ArP? if so im assuming you got to 40% unbuffed crit before switching so as to stay at the 35% mark?

[Skyborn]

When you spec into maces does it actually update your armor penetration percentage on your character sheet in game? And does it show the bonus you get from battle stance?

Right now I have 10% ArP from items but my character sheet isn't registering the 15% from mace spec or the 10% from battle stance it seems.

[shiz98]

Yeah, from what I've seen the ignore armor percentage on the sheet is purely from ArP rating.

[Arold]

I've been writing and re-writing this post for almost a half-hour. At first it was defending GreenDragon's build, but the more I thought about it the less I liked it.

Putting points into Incite instead of Improved Slam is a mistake in my opinion, because Improved Slam doesn't stop you from HSing, but without it, Slam just isn't an option.

Every tank talent tree has a melee slow effect. Sure, some of them are single-target only, but do you really need this debuff on trash or adds? I can't think of a situation where TC is so important. And even then, you still have the standard 10% version.

Improved shouts, on the other hand, is a strait up extra 500+ hit points on your whole crew. Now at first glance, 1 or 2% extra HP may not look as attractive as 10% extra melee slow, but that's actually just 6% vs the Death Knight's Icy Touch, and no extra slow vs Infected Wounds or Judgment of the Just. On most bosses, the boss's melee attack is not the raid's primary problem anyway; Commanding Shout increases survivability against all damage types. Not to mention 500 extra HP can be an enormous benefit to your off- and raid Healers in progression.

In my opinion, the 8 points put in the prot tree in this build are better spent elsewhere. My build is very similar but I have 2 points in Improved Slam, 2 points in Improved Demoralizing Shout (to open commanding presence) and the rest in Commanding Presence. I'd also drop Anger Management to get that last point in presence.

[Lizana]

Source: Skyborn When you spec into maces does it actually update your armor penetration percentage on your character sheet in game? And does it show the bonus you get from battle stance? Right now I have 10% ArP from items but my character sheet isn't registering the 15% from mace spec or the 10% from battle stance it seems.

It is just your arp from gear, you will always need to add 10% for battle and 15% for mace spec if you have to the number to get your arp %

[VikingKong]

I take it that the traditional slam rotation is out? However, should we still use slam between every other GCD or once (or twice) between every two?

[Skyborn]

Slam fills empty GCD's. If you're getting a string of sudden death procs and taste for blood procs you don't have to slam as every GCD you're hitting a major attack. Slam is useful in those moments when the RNG kind of dries up and youre not getting any lucky executes.

[cucullin]

hold up, the expertise cap is 18? i thought it was 26.....am i an idiot?

[Arold]

Source: cucullin hold up, the expertise cap is 18? i thought it was 26.....am i an idiot?

No, you're not. Assuming we always attack from behind and don't need to worry about parry, we need 6.5% worth of dodge reduction, which would be 26 expertise. However, we can now put two points in Weapon Mastery; that takes care of 2% of it, leaving only 4.5% up to expertise.

[Optimoos]

Source: Arold No, you're not. Assuming we always attack from behind and don't need to worry about parry, we need 6.5% worth of dodge reduction, which would be 26 expertise. However, we can now put two points in Weapon Mastery; that takes care of 2% of it, leaving only 4.5% up to expertise.

You haven't gone far enough... 2 points in Weapon Mastery for 2 expertise, and 2 points in Strength of Arms for another 4 expertise, leaving only 20. I'm not sure where the 18 expertise comes from. Maybe assuming food buff, or another talent I've missed?

[Krenian]

6.5% is the number you're aiming for.

2% from Weapon Mastery lowers that to 4.5%

4 points of Expertise from Strength of Arms = 1% which then lowers it to 3.5%

4+4+4+2 = 14 expertise total = 3.5%

Assume you're human, you get 3 points of expertise, or 0.75%. As Orc, you get 1.25% for axes.

Orcs would then need 2.25% or 9 expertise points on axes
Humans would need 2.75% or 11 expertise points on swords and maces.
Everyone else needs 3.5% or 14 expertise at the most.

Not sure where people are getting 18 expertise from. 6.5% dodge rate = 26 expertise. Minus the 2% dodge, and you get only 4.5% dodge rate or 18 expertise. However I find it odd that none of you considered Strength of Arms, which gives 4 expertise, or 1%.

You're all over expertising yourselves with 18 Expertise. GG!

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warr...0&version=9806

(Build I used btw. Not sure if that's your traditional arms build but it's a 54/17 build I made fast enough)