[kwag]

Well, even if you have a 258 weapon already, I actually think that replacing that 5% crit with the 15% armor pen is a good trade IF it puts you at the armor pen hard cap. At this specific tier, Arms has to bend over backwards to hit the hard cap, but it is reachable. This wasn't the case in Ulduar, and it won't be the case in Icecrown. So freeing up those item points to gem differently in some slots or to not just jam in all the armor pen gear we can, the gains to STR or other stats trumps the differences in rating.

(5% crit is worth 230 crit rating, while 15% armor pen is worth about 210 armor pen rating.)

[Kazeyonoma]

kwag, I'll agree with you in that going maces to go passive 100% is probably a net gain, I will slightly disagree with your point value allocation in axe vs mace.

You state 5% crit is 230 crit rating, and 15% armor pen is about 210 armor pen rating, but you leave out the 5% more crit damage. There's a reason why impale is such a vital dps talent that just about EVERY warrior spec (prot included) tries to get impale. 5% more on top of that is unobtainable anywhere else (meta gem is the only other place but in all dps discussions that is assumed to be in place). How much "rating/SEP" do you put for that?

[Natoku]

Hi,
was wondering if you guys could help me take a look at my gemming and see if I should change anything? Thanks in advance

The World of Warcraft Armory

Awesome guide btw.

[Kazeyonoma]

Post a new thread in the HALP! forum Natoku, you'll get more advice there.

[Zerou]

i have a question on glyphs, would glyph of overpower be good and just stand infront of the mob/boss if possible?

[Destruyen]

Source: Zerou i have a question on glyphs, would glyph of overpower be good and just stand infront of the mob/boss if possible?

you're willing to trade a possible 12k execute that was parried for a 5-6k overpower?

[Zerou]

good point so no standing in from should i still keep it?

[Kazeyonoma]

1) never stand in front, parries are bad.
2) if you stand behind/side you'll never get parried so it's useless.

[Destruyen]

get rid of the overpower glyph and stand behind the boss.

not only for dps reasons, but some bosses have a parry-haste mechanic that if you get parried, you just hasted the next melee attack that boss does and you could overload the dmg on the tank to where the healers can't keep up.

[Zerou]

Ahh i see glad i didnt try it heard about that somewhere what glyph would u recommend i have mortal and execution already

[Destruyen]

rending

[Zerou]

back to rending it is ty

[Kazeyonoma]

So i posted this in my guild forums but i think I'm gonna ask here as well since I'm hoping one of you other top end warriors can help me out.

basic jist is.

97% ArP with food/elixirs for ArP in battle stance (t9 2 pc) (no grim toll)

or try to get to 54% ArP unbuffed with grim toll but higher AP.

this is basically my setup:
Item Comparison Tool - World of Warcraft

I already have all the pieces except the leather helm which I can purchase with emblems. The gemming I currently have is a mix between ArP/Str but for the 97% I'd regem everything ArP. I still retain hit cap, and expertise cap.

Do you think it's worth it or should I wait for the boot that I linked to drop first, then go full blown and achieve 100%

[Zerou]

Thats alotta god damned ArP the only stat I'm staying away from well not gemming for it i should say, If you plan to go ArP might as well do it now because i dont think the boots whould affect things too much if u you'll have 97% ArP I've never tried it so i dont know but you might be abit low on strength because of your agl gear. I've read that ArP can only be viable if you have gear with that much strength already in it which would be t9, but like i said i dont know much about ArP

[Kazeyonoma]

I know this hasn't been updated in some time, but I"m starting to question the rotation of

rend->MS->exe->OP->Slam.

My original rotation was
rend->exe->op->MS->Slam

and switched to the first rotation based on expert advice (and my dps went up so I believe it to be true).

Today I had a discussion with a warrior in my guild who i'm trying to teach how to play arms, and he brought up an interesting point.

Execute hits harder than MS, costs the same rage, and can proc more executes.

So shouldn't the priority either be:

rend->Exe->OP->MS->Slam

or
rend->Exe->MS->OP->Slam?

execute should be our top move to go for because it hits the hardest and costs the same rage as MS. Damage per rage, OP wins, but if it's damage per GCD we're trying to squeeze out, Exe always wins. I understand the valid point of keeping MS on CD so you're not "wasting" it, but in every log I've seen of myself, Destruyen, or even other warriors, execute hits hardest, then OP (largely due to massive crit chance) then MS then slam.

So shouldn't Execute shift to the top of the Priority just behind Rend?

And likewise, if this turns out to be the case, shouldn't the 20% range be just "rend->exe->exe->exe until no rage, then OP for rage efficiency, and back to exe until low rage?"


Actually I went back and looked even further in the logs and it isn't 100% true. My MS and my Executes hit for almost identical damage points, so keeping MS on CD makes more sense during 100-20% since it's reliable and execute is a proc. but for execute phase 19%-0, it would appear that either MS or Execute hits for the same amount and costs the same rage, so it's inconsequential which one you hit first.

I think I need to do the math out as to how AP affects either one and see if AP is creating some sort of different number basis for this.

[Kazeyonoma]

MS technically scales higher than Execute, due to the fact that execute's AP modifier is .2X where as Mortal strikes AP modifier is technically .235714X*1.10*1.10(calculated by taking AP/14 * 3.3 normalized weapon speed) which brings it to .285197X.

the problem is that the bonus damage from executes innate damage, AND excess rage bonus severely trump out MS's +380 bonus and base_weapon_damage.

As base_weapon_damage goes up (read higher Ilvl/dps weapons) and AP goes up, MS narrows the gap on execute, but realistically Execute should almost always hit harder than MS.

Looking back at ebs2000 (curnguz)'s work on When to Execute, the moment execute got changed to 30 rage cap, he briefly mentions that Execute should always outscale MS.

I think the proper rotation should be:

Rend->Exe->MS->OP->Slam?

very very confused now O_o.

[Destruyen]

i prioritize ms over execute (yes i know execute hits harder) is because ms has an exact cooldown, 5 seconds. now if execute procs within 1.5 seconds of ms coming off cd, you only have a 9% chance that the ms will proc sudden death again. i usually hit execute if i have 1 second or more left on the cooldown of ms, pushing back ms only .5 seconds. under one second left i hold and put ms on cooldown and then execute.

now, as to the point where am i doing the right thing or not, i dont know. it just makes sense to me to prioritize an exact cooldown ability over a proc.

[Kazeyonoma]

yeah i'm wondering too, of course this is all moot since what... 91% of the time, execute won't even be up, and as such we'll probably end up doing OP/MS anyways. but just interesting to know.

[Quietsch]

There is one fact, which you don't mentioned: ms costs always 30 rage. exe works with only 10(15 depending on your spec) rage. And if you execute with >10 rage, the DPR get worse.
After an MS, you can use in most cases exe. if you use exe first, you could burn the rage needed for ms.
(With exe first it would be 10+30+30 rage, so 70 needed, with ms there is the minimum 40.)

[Destruyen]

wouldn't it just be 50 needed and not 70? you get 10 rage back after an execute with 3/3 sudden death. 50 rage - 30 for the execute + 10 rage back = 30 rage for an ms. unless you were talking about another execute following ms...