[Plenty]

Source: Kazeyonoma I feel terrible having regemmed already prior to reading about this turn of events, and will probably feel it immensely in my next raid, but I have faith in Blizzard to fix this problem since they've known about it since months ago on the PTR.

Looks like fixing ArP might take awhile if Blizz has known about it for months.

[Kazeyonoma]

I think they've known about it but never got around to fixing it. If that's the case then I will have to farm up and regem... again, ugh. Lets hope not.

[Squirrelnut]

Dumb question here.... what the heck does TfB stand for? WoW and its 1,000,000 acronyms

People say that with arms it is GCD based and really have no rage issues but I didn't experience that, is there something that am I missing?

Regarding an Arms spec rotation it would be really nice if someone that knows what the heck they are doing could include a diagram similar to the Prot one (http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f56/4...-rotation.html) to let us know what rotation prioritization we should be attempting and perhaps include it in the initial post. I know something similar to that is already there but it just seems like there are a number of times I either have nothing to press (other then slam) or don't have enough rage.

Thanks for all the info

EDIT: also I was wondering why the single target dps spec referenced does not put 3 points into improved mortal strike?

[Nuberino]

Dumb question here.... what the heck does TfB stand for? WoW and its 1,000,000 acronyms

Thirst for Blood - Arms talent.

Where in MT Squirrel, I am in Bozeman.

[Squirrelnut]

Missoula

[Aborted]

Squirrelnut,
TfB = Taste for Blood, the overpower proc.

If your not using a skill be it either Mortal Strike, Slam, Overpower, or Execute you're doing something wrong. Also make sure you're spec'd into Endless Rage, there's a reason it's called that.

Your rotation is simple if TfB or SD(sudden death) proc use overpower/execute, if Bladestorm is off cooldown use it, if nothing has proc'd and bladestorm is on CD use slam/MS and refresh rend every 18 seconds.

The writer of the guild likes 1/3 imp ms so he can get 2/2 imp execute. I don't, it's personal prefrence.

[Squirrelnut]

Thx for clearing up the TfB -> Taste for Blood

My issue was simply not knowing whether I should use Slam or if there should be a better (instant) alternative. If including Slam in the rotation then I should have no problems of down time with nothing to press.

Regarding spec I was basically using the one outlined in the initial post but replaced 2/2 in imp execute with 3/3 in imp ms (56/15) but was still suffering rage issues. It seemed like a lot of times I could just execute spam myself down to 0 rage and miss a GCD waiting to build some back up.

EDIT: Also a big question for me is whether I should leave everything gemmed for STR or if I should look into Armor Pen. I have seen all the talk about it being bugged but it seems like my DPS is sub-par considering my gear which isn't great but for being off spec isn't terrible. My armory shows my def gear atm but basically is all epic:
3P T7.5
2P T7
Ironsoul - Item - World of Warcraft with zerking enchant
Various emblem gear and nax10/25 drops except 1 blue trinket Meteorite Whetstone - Item - World of Warcraft
Everything is gemmed/enchanted

I see people talking about 3k-4k dps on the boss target dummy but I was only getting around 2.5-2.9 when messing with it last night. Sad when compared to getting 3k+ on Patchwerk pre 3.1 with the old 15/5/51 prot spec. I have considered going for the UA spec but I have picked up all this nice Off spec DPS gear and would like to use it since Arms has seen some buffs and it reminds me of my PvP days prior to Wrath

[Kazeyonoma]

Basically you have a priority list just like in prot.

1)Keep rend up (let it fall off as far as I know, so you have a GCD to use, refreshing it will probably lower your dps if you do it at any time > 3 seconds left anyways)
2)Execute/Sudden Death procs is your shield slam of arms. You hit it everytime it comes up, if you get back to back to back sudden death procs, then you spam that execute key.
3)Overpower/Taste for Blood procs is your revenge of arms. You hit it anytime Execute isn't lit up, and you can basically time it, it'll happen every 6 seconds so long as rend is up. which leads to....
4) Mortal Strike. You hit this one when 1 is covered, and 2 and 3 haven't lit up. This'll basically happen every time after you OP since OP will light up consistently, and MS should light up right after it (a little sooner if you have Imp MS)
5) finally you imp slam. When you're not getting any lucky SD procs, and OP is on CD, and MS is on cd. you slam. Sometimes You'll slam twice. (this is similar to devastate in the prot rotation). And since ANY hit can proc SD, consider SD your SnB procs and just be watchful for when it lights up.

Follow this rotation and you can't go wrong.

Oh, and I suppose you can squeeze Bladestorm (BS) kept on cd as well, I just find there's normally trash running around on Ulduar boss fights and I don't want to risk pulling aggro on them before the tanks can nab em.

During Bloodlust coordinate Shattering Throw rotations with other warriors and fire it off and go nuts. Pop cds of course during that time too (if you have trinkets or are an Orc/Troll) No deathwish though so =(. I dunno if switching stances to pop recklessness is good enough to warrant the rage loss.

[Muffin Man]

Hmm, you and Shiz are using different priorities.

I'm still learning myself, but I've been doing:
Rend / SD / MS / OP / Slam

I find myself doing MS / OP / Execute during the last 20%. Should I just spam the heck out of Execute? I was adopting the Fury mantra of using every GCD during the spamxecute phase.

[Kazeyonoma]

i'm not sure about execute phase. i just spam it myself until i hear otherwise. I'm spec'd into imp Execute, so I try to use it as much as possible.

[Ont]

You don't want to spam execute unless it's a Sudden Death proc, unless you'll get a white swing before your next GCD.

Ie, under 20% continue your normal rotation (only SD Executes) unless you're going to be able to pay enough attention to your swing timer where it's okay to dump all rage into a big execute because you've got a white hit coming.

[Kazeyonoma]

hrm, interesting.

The reason why i place MS behind OP is because of the 20% bonus to OP and the higher chance to crit on it seems to be higher in priority to me in DPS than MS. not to mention OP is more rage efficient.

As for the execute range, I'll play around with it in execute range and see which puts out more dps.

[Muffin Man]

I put MS in front of OP because of CD reasons. I hadn't considered the damage.

If I MS the 5 sec (really 6) CD starts from when I use the ability.

For OP, the '6 sec CD' starts from when OP lights up (the TfB proc really). So to me it's a way to manage cool downs / rotation.

I'll get into trouble though if I have a bunch of SD procs... typically I try to OP before it runs out then SD. That probably isn't ideal, but I found that if I just SD and let OP expire I end up slamming more.

Anyways that was a lot of explaining from an Arms newb, so I apologize if it's all wrong.

Also, I have a weapon swap macro to 2 1hers for execute, maybe I'll try that and see how that does.

[Squirrelnut]

Thanks for the info Kaz, that should help me in following my Prot rotation priority habits. I actually have the same buttons bound so that when I switch specs to DPS my keys get switched so that execute replaces SS, Overpower replaces Revenge, MS replaces devastate & Slam is the ugly cousin that gets slapped when nothing else is available. Rend has its own key replacing Spell Reflect and I throw it up as needed to keep it ticking.

[Arold]

I've been hitting Mortal Strike right after Rend at the start of a fight, just to be sure to get the free crit from Juggernaut. Maybe it's lag, but it seems to me that Overpower isn't ready by then anyway; if that first swing happens to proc Sudden Death I just let it slide a GCD.

[shiz98]

I put MS in front of OP because of CD reasons. I hadn't considered the damage.

This. I went back and changed it shortly after posting after giving it some more thought. The standard EJ suggestion has you putting it behind Execute/OP, which is actually bad. Why? Cooldowns. With the TfB changes, you can actually wait a couple GCD's before hitting it. Execute has a similarly long usage window (though you run the small risk of missing another proc - not an issue). So even though MS does lower damage than both of these abilities, you should use it first. The cost of waiting a GCD to use MS is that you use it less over the course of a fight. The cost of using MS over OP or Execute is for all practical purposes nothing.

On the ArP issue, there was a post by Ghostcrawler today basically saying "ur doin it wrong." Apparently the formula is a lot more complicated than people believe it to be, and he's actually going to post it. As it is now, it doesn't look like it's bugged according to Blizzard...

Also, Arold, the reason you can't use OP right after putting up Rend is that Rend ticks every 3 seconds, which gives you an extra GCD to use after it's applied before TfB lights up.

[shiz98]

ArP Update
From Ghostcrawler:

As a quick and dirty calculation, assume that the cap on a level 83 warrior mob is 8205.75 * your percent of armor penetration.

So to keep this simple (in reality the math may differ for boss level mobs, but the difference *should* be small), this is the rule you're going to use:
Armor reduced = 8206 * ArP Percent

Yes, it's exactly the formula above. Just a bit clearer

So, what effect does this have? Well, according to GC a level 80 mob has about 9700 armor. I'm not sure what this means for a boss mob (nor is EJ), so let's just assume that it's 10500. The real number will probably be out shortly, but this will do in the meantime. Anyway, what all this means, mathematically speaking, that ArP is only ~80% as effective as everyone thinks it should be.

What does that mean, practically? It means ArP is not the stat you're looking for. Maybe. Anecdotal evidence collected selflessly by our friend Kaze (yeahhhhhh >.>) suggests that it may not be so great a stat to stack. EJ hasn't run the numbers, and I haven't either (though it's something I may do this weekend), so that's all we have right now. Try it, and if it works. say so. Your choice is basically ArP or STR - make a note of how much you have of each.

In the meanwhile, you probably want to hold off on regemming for ArP if you haven't already. If you have regemmed for ArP, you might still be ok. You also might not. Somebody has to run the numbers before we can know for sure. In the end, it might be a "ArP is great if you're nearly capped" sort of deal. Or not. Who knows.

[Karynaku]

Question regarding rotation:
Under 20%, is it just execute all the way? Keep up rend and use TFB procs? Use MS over execute when it's off CD? Or execute only? (I'm making a flow chart and an addon)

edit: also, never use bladestorm on bosses I guess?

[shiz98]

Bladestorm you can probably use right after applying Rend for a nice little DPS boost. It won't be huge, but I think it will be at least a slight DPS increase. Personally, I save it on any fight where there are adds or multiple mobs - its usefulness there outweighs its usefulness as a single-target dps gain.

I'm not sure on what to do for execute. It's always been a little hard to model - have to get back to you on that one

[Kjeks]

So I went arms on wedensday after beeing fury for way to long. I've been reading some tips here and think I'm getting the "rotation" and all that right.
However I find myself having over 60rage for the most of the fights, I just cant seem to manage to use it all. Is this how it should be or am I doing something wrong?